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RR - Zero Escape

GN Podcast #405

NFD 5/17 outtakes

NFD 5/17 - video

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EoD - Bye, EA
 

Sakurai - Smash Bros. Wii U/3DS will 'change direction', dual support is key

"As you noted, there is a certain dead end we come to if we just expand the volume of the game. I intend to change direction a little as we go. The key to that's going to be its dual support for 3DS/Wii U. I'm really just getting started on this so it's going to take time, but I'll come up with something that uses that link as the game's central axis, so I hope you're looking forward to it." - Masahiro Sakurai

Oh man, here we go. The very beginnings of talk on Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS. Sakurai has a very long road ahead, and we're going to drool over every juicy detail as it comes in!

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75 total comments (View all)
User avatar
26 Apr 2012 02:25

I don't really care what he'll do, as long as Ghirahim and Ridley are playable, hehe.

I just hope it will have many new characters, and maybe some good Single Player Story, and such.
User avatar
26 Apr 2012 02:30

led-naruto wrote:
Additionally, Sakurai developed Meteos after Kirby Air Ride.

And you know, there's a reason why people in the company refer Miyamoto as the guy that "upends teatables". No slacking BitBlock, go research more instead of whinning!


I forgot that when I first wrote my post. I have since edited and added to it, actually, haha.

But yeah.
User avatar
26 Apr 2012 02:50

Berrix wrote:
Seroth wrote:
MoldyClay wrote:
@Seroth

It's a party game. It's not a fighting game.

I think Melee's broken physics somehow made people forget this. All of the games are party games masquerading as fighting games.

There's a tournament mode, and you can edit parameters to make it competitive. Has nothing to do with fun, it's the fact that that's not the kind of game it is.

What do you think level hazards, items and gimmicks like tripping were created for?

New direction. Smash Bros. can be competitive, especially if Nintendo makes it so. I don't even play Smash Bros. competitively. I just like watching competitive play, and I would love for Nintendo to embrace that kind of stuff, hosting tournaments, supporting their game like that.

Party game, fighting game, whatever. People can play Smash Bros. however they want, as long as the options are presented to them. I mean, there's a reason why they included the ability to turn items on and off from the beginning of the series. Limiting Smash Bros. to one mode of play is dumb.

There is this ideology that a lot of Smash Bros. players have that the only way it can be fun is if it's wacky random stuff all the time. That's why I added "this does not mean it will be less fun."


Forcing the mechanics into competitive play focus is pretty much the same mentality as "wacky random party" mentality others took. I played Melee competitively, I enjoyed it as it were, but it wore on me over time. I was glad Brawl wasn't Melee+ everyone hoped it would be, made the entire game feel different. Too many people latched onto Melee in a way that makes me feel uncomfortable to even say I played it on such a level. I don't see people going to change Skyward Sword to play like Ocarina of Time because OoT was just that "perfect" and I don't see why reforging the direction SSB has taken is such a bigger deal.

Aside from that, any game that pits you against another player can be made "competitive" in a deep way. Hell, if Brawl had the option of turning tripping off, that would been a huge game changer in many pro players' eyes. Even Diablo 2 has a strong PvP community, and that game's broken as hell when it comes to that.

Though I am excited to see what Sakurai may have in store for this, as it is also meaning this won't be like Melee, nor will it be another Brawl, it'll be a whole new game in of itself, that excites me. Perhaps they may find that middle ground that is just the amazing sweet spot for the game's major fanbase.


Probably the single most retarded thing I've ever seen in a fighting game. Seriously, what the heck were they thinking?? RANDOM TRIPPING, YEAH! WHAT? Not just pro's man, I like to play for fun, in a competitive nature with just my friends in a room, screw tournaments that's for people who expect to come out with a prize for playing the best, not my thing, fun is the only point to me in games.

Looking at the differences of the smash bros games to now, I look forward to seeing what comes out but I'm sense something is going to be really lame about connections between the 2 systems. It's just a hunch and I hope I'm dead wrong.
User avatar
26 Apr 2012 03:01

oh Jeeze. I hope it keeps the core gameplay the same.
User avatar
26 Apr 2012 03:10

bound_for_earthbound wrote:oh Jeeze. I hope it keeps the core gameplay the same.


Don't worry, I'm pretty sure Sakurai wouldn't dare change the core gameplay. ^^ He might update it, sure, but it will surly stay pretty much the same.
User avatar
26 Apr 2012 03:20

I think people are taking his comment too seriously.

He also said he wasn't planning on making Brawl just a "character roster upgrade" and he wound up adding over 13 characters (technically).

The connectivity probably won't be that huge and it will probably just involve characters or something you don't NEED to enjoy the game.

Not to mention, I don't really know why people aren't into buying both anyway, since they'll probably be different games.

I also don't know why people are so mad about tripping. It's no less random and annoying than Bob-ombs landing in front of you mid-attack.

It's annoying if you're playing for money, but then that was your problem in the first place. Playing a party game for money.

That's like playing Mario Party for money and getting pissed when you lose in a minigame that you have no control over.
User avatar
26 Apr 2012 03:39

If 3DS players can play with Wii U players, this game will be absolutely amazing. I also hope they add more for the competitive game, such as leaderboards and online stat tracking.
User avatar
26 Apr 2012 04:23

touch screen controls confirmed !!!!

watch the internet cry !!!

XD ok I'm going back to Kid Icarus now ^^
User avatar
26 Apr 2012 04:38

Not really looking forward to waiting four years for this, but if you give me a trailer at E3 with, say, Geno and Megaman, I will wait with 100% Hype Meter for all four of them.
User avatar
26 Apr 2012 04:50

1) Don't half-ass the roster this time

2) Dump the 3DS version

Just my two pounds.
User avatar
26 Apr 2012 05:31

TheBitBlock wrote:Sooo... what if you don't have / want a 3DS or want to buy 2 games... I just feel like there will be some dumb StreetPass concept tossed in where you build character stats based on your steps or who you pass. Sakurai takes too long to make games because he demands they add in modes and options that are not needed and just come off as half-hearted. Stick to a simple plan and expand on it - THAT is what makes Nintendo games a success.

Miyamoto design: Take a VERY SIMPLE idea and expand upon it to make a fleshed out and creative experience.

Sakurai design: Have no original idea but smash in a TON of options and modes that do nothing in the grand scheme of things. Oh and delay the game about 5 times.

Sakurai once said we should look at Kid Icarus Uprising as an example of the quality that will be seen in the next Smash bros.... that scares the hell out of me.


Love you Josh, really I do, but I think you maybe overthinking this one just a tad. Instead of focusing on the software side of how the 3ds and Wii u will interact via two games, focus more how the hardware between 3ds and wii u can interact. hint* What do both of these gaming devices have in common? I think thats where we'll see our intergration for the most part. I highly expect the next smash to make alot of usage of the touch screen on both devices. :wink:

Also: Y U NO KID ICARUS MAN!! That game is awesome! :lol:
User avatar
26 Apr 2012 05:43

MoldyClay wrote:
@Devil_Rising

Thing is, he didn't really plan to make two versions.

So I really hope people don't start blaming him for that.

If I recall correctly, he mentioned he wasn't sure which one he wanted to do and Iwata was like "do both" and he was like "Ehhhh... okay" and then Sakurai said it was possible he wasn' t going to actually make both of them if it was too stressful and became too big of a project and that is why he was annoyed with Iwata announcing them (aside from the fact he wasn't even working on them yet).

As for Twilight Princess. No. It was not delayed to be a different game. The only thing he didn't like about the original game was the wolf, but he kept it in anyway. The game wasn't really delayed that much at all. Everyone just kept assuming it was coming out and Reggie kept giving fake release windows. The game was supposed to come out in 2005 and the reason it was delayed was to make the Wii version because they wanted you to buy that one and not the Gamecube one.

And I don't know what TP you played, but I feel like Miyamoto should have stuck his ground and *not* had the wolf in it.




Thanks for the education, bro. But I knew that stuff already. And actually, yes, he did have them make actual changes. Last I remember, he was the one who had them change the way the Twilight parts of the game looked, for one thing.

I'm well aware it didn't come out in 2005 because they "upgraded it" for the Wii version. Personally, I played the GC version anyway, because that's the version I had been waiting for. And quite frankly, I don't know what TP YOU played, friend, but the wolf was just fine (pretty entertaining in fact), and it happens to be the best 3D Zelda I have yet played, so I'm happy with what they produced.
User avatar
26 Apr 2012 06:07

Chosenoneknuckles wrote:
2) Dump the 3DS version


If the Wii U doesn't support GCN controllers I'd probably actually prefer the 3DS version.
User avatar
26 Apr 2012 07:09

This Smash Bros is going to rock, I just know it!
User avatar
26 Apr 2012 09:57

As long as the 3DS version doesn't have exclusive characters and stages that I need to connect to the Wii U and get then I'm good. Don't have a 3DS and don't plan on too anytime soon. I only have enough money for the Wii U right now.

Also add King K. Rool as a playable character! I've been waiting 3 games for him to be. :cool:

Oh yeah and no more 3rd party characters... :P
User avatar
26 Apr 2012 10:06

DeMatador wrote:Well, yeah, I considered that, but with "that" I meant Smash Bros. You can't compare the Oracle games or FSA to the uber-franchise that Smash Bros. has become. Going all FSA on Smash Bros. would be screwing over Nintendo's second most hyped franchise, second only to console Zelda games.

Oh trust me, I agree with that train of logic completely. I'd be pretty sour too if that happened to one of my favorite franchises. :cry:

MoldyClay wrote:I don't think that's the same thing. They were two complete games. The only thing connecting them added was items you didn't need to complete it and a bonus boss fight.

Two complete games, one boss fight that wraps up the entire story of both. Doesn't that somewhat sound like another game recently out now that offers a true ending as a separate purchase? I'm not even talking about the gameplay mechanics here, I'm talking about how you have to get both versions of the game JUST to get that bonus thing. Why should I have to pay EXTRA for bonus stuff already in both games? Isn't that what in-game secrets and "easter eggs" are for?

It's basically saying "We'll give you a complete game, but you have to pay another $30 to see Part 2 and the actual ending." It's ironic that these two games were made by Capcom, whose recently getting a lot of flak for what's practically the exact same thing.

I'm not saying they're both bad games, by all means they're good, but the way it was handled was not a great idea.
User avatar
26 Apr 2012 12:34

I am happy to hear that Sakurai is going for a new approach to Smash Bros., especially after Brawl's mantra "of more, more, and MORE", even when most additional content tended to be of little importance and/or hindered the experience. However, I am anxious/worried as to how the emphasis on connectivity will be handled, as I don't want to see half-assed gimmickry and/or incomplete play experience(s) without both versions.

And for some of you who are complaining about Sakurai's delaying his game(s), think more for a while: you can blame Iwata for announcing both the games before development even started and the dual platform situation, and should also remember that Miyamoto is not the almighty saint that you'd think he is. Miyamoto, after all, does take just as long times when crafting games. (Remember, Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword, and, oh I don't know, Pikmin 3?) Seriously, don't rush Sakurai: "A delayed game is eventually good. A bad game is bad forever." Sakurai could sure use a little bit more encouragement, considering how somewhat unhappy he is when asked about the new Smash Bros.

And for those complaining about competitive Melee players, you're not any better for talking about how "superior" random, wacky, out-of-control play styles are. Why can't we have a Smash Bros. fighter that can please both groups and more?
User avatar
26 Apr 2012 14:29

HYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYPE!!!

ALL I NEED is Mewtwo and Midna as playable characters. Better online. Costumes and remove tripping. Everything else could just be the same. Please Sakurai REALLY think about the choices u make and don't go too crazy.

Oh and make a Gamecube controler for the game... ._.
User avatar
26 Apr 2012 16:23

Swedish_Otaku wrote:HYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYPE!!!

ALL I NEED is Mewtwo and Midna as playable characters. Better online. Costumes and remove tripping. Everything else could just be the same. Please Sakurai REALLY think about the choices u make and don't go too crazy.

Oh and make a Gamecube controler for the game... ._.



Since the Wii U doesn't support Gamecube anymore, it will be a big problem for people like me that are used to the controller.
I really suck with the others, I tried for weeks to get used to the wiimote + nunchuck and I couldn't play very well at Nintendo Tour.
So I hope the Tablet controller would fit with me, that or the Classic Controller.
No Avatar
26 Apr 2012 18:30

Daz wrote:
Sakurai is allowed to. because he delays his games for legitimate reasons. Miyamoto just comes around and spouts BS about a game coming out in so or so much time and then it ends up coming out in triple that amount of time without any given reason for why he did it. I mean Skyward Sword has ONE reason ONE and it was the worst reason. they had to change the art direction. Originally skyward sword had MHTri type graphics but Miyamoto and his Oriental ass got all up in the directors business and changed it.

Wow, did you just use the word Oriental to describe a person? This really speaks to your mentality, especially as a gamer.

You probably don't even realize what you just said. Sometimes it's scary knowing that fandom (potentially) has people like that in it.
User avatar
26 Apr 2012 18:48

marco wrote:
Daz wrote:
Sakurai is allowed to. because he delays his games for legitimate reasons. Miyamoto just comes around and spouts BS about a game coming out in so or so much time and then it ends up coming out in triple that amount of time without any given reason for why he did it. I mean Skyward Sword has ONE reason ONE and it was the worst reason. they had to change the art direction. Originally skyward sword had MHTri type graphics but Miyamoto and his Oriental ass got all up in the directors business and changed it.

Wow, did you just use the word Oriental to describe a person? This really speaks to your mentality, especially as a gamer.

You probably don't even realize what you just said. Sometimes it's scary knowing that fandom (potentially) has people like that in it.

Yeah, nevermind that there's no reason to point out that Miyamoto is Asian, unless this is more "oh well Sakurai can get away with it because he's Sakurai", so you know, he can get away with being Asian because he's Sakurai!
User avatar
26 Apr 2012 19:12

I'm gonna get a lot of hate for saying this but I really don't want them to change too much.
User avatar
26 Apr 2012 19:47

I'm OK as long as it comes out before the Wii U takes its bow for its successor. :lol:
No Avatar
27 Apr 2012 00:10

waddledoodles wrote:
marco wrote:
Daz wrote:
Sakurai is allowed to. because he delays his games for legitimate reasons. Miyamoto just comes around and spouts BS about a game coming out in so or so much time and then it ends up coming out in triple that amount of time without any given reason for why he did it. I mean Skyward Sword has ONE reason ONE and it was the worst reason. they had to change the art direction. Originally skyward sword had MHTri type graphics but Miyamoto and his Oriental ass got all up in the directors business and changed it.

Wow, did you just use the word Oriental to describe a person? This really speaks to your mentality, especially as a gamer.

You probably don't even realize what you just said. Sometimes it's scary knowing that fandom (potentially) has people like that in it.

Yeah, nevermind that there's no reason to point out that Miyamoto is Asian, unless this is more "oh well Sakurai can get away with it because he's Sakurai", so you know, he can get away with being Asian because he's Sakurai!

Yeah, right? I don't see why ethnicity was brought into it all. No less that a word like that was actually used as an indicator. That's. . . really disgusting.

(I'm going to start saying that "Sakurai can get away with being (blank) because he's Sakurai!" for everything though, so thank you for that. >u<)
User avatar
29 Apr 2012 11:10

I don't now what to get it on for Nintendo 3DS will have 3D which is great and I can play anytime or on Nintendo Wii U

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