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GN Podcast #484

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Smash Wii U review

Adventure Time rev
 

XSEED almost didn't pick up The Last Story for localization

"It was a constant fight even within our own organization. To our external sales reps, we'd be saying, ‘No, like you guys don't understand. There's tons of fans out there that are asking for this. There's a huge fan movement.' I mean, so yeah. In the end, I think we were right." - Ken Berry, XSEED

I'm glad someone at XSEED put up that fight. They managed to make a lot of fans in the states happy, and also pulled in their best-selling title in history. That's definitely a win-win for everyone!

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33 total comments (View all)
User avatar
28 Dec 2012 17:47

I'm so happy that Xseed exists and that they fight to get good games over here. I hope to see them continue this and hope to see them get as many games possible out.
No Avatar
28 Dec 2012 17:52

I'm glad they did it. The Last Story was a great game. Even if I wound up liking Xenoblade much better, The Last Story was the original game that drew my interest to Operation Rainfall due to the beautiful score of Nobuo Uematsu.

I'm disappointed they had to push for it as hard as they did. I wonder if that's what stopped "Pandora's Tower" from coming over if an overwhelmingly great RPG like The Last Story barely made the cut.
User avatar
28 Dec 2012 18:12

It sounds like even part of XSEED didn't want to bring it over. I don't think the petitions did anything, but OR did build awareness and boosted sales for the games in Europe which lead to the games's localization. Reggie did say he was looking at the European sales to consider bringing them over, and he did bring xenoblade. For anyone wondering about Pandora's tower, it bombed in Europe so it's not coming over
Edit: recent events have made me question how good XSEED is at their job. They decided to bring over EXEEDIV (err...I probably wrote that wrong) and we still don't have it on the 3DS but they released it to the PSP's online shop which I doubt got it more traction. They also did a very poor job bringing over the last story. It took them forever and they didn't even have to do anything ...then they delayed it. I'm still grateful that we got it though. Fantastic game although not much of a jrpg
User avatar
28 Dec 2012 18:44

Ameirca...the only place stupid enough to hire on staff that has no idea what the industry their working for is all about. The sooner the collapse the better.
User avatar
28 Dec 2012 19:02

rockman wrote:Ameirca...the only place stupid enough to hire on staff that has no idea what the industry their working for is all about. The sooner the collapse the better.

This is totally wrong.

They have the market research to tell them what games will do well in the American Market.

Sadly the American market is all about the shooters, sports, racers and realistic games.

Japanese games aren't very popular these days with gamers unless the games are targeted for "casuals".
User avatar
28 Dec 2012 19:31

M1 wrote:
rockman wrote:Ameirca...the only place stupid enough to hire on staff that has no idea what the industry their working for is all about. The sooner the collapse the better.

This is totally wrong.

They have the market research to tell them what games will do well in the American Market.

Sadly the American market is all about the shooters, sports, racers and realistic games.

Japanese games aren't very popular these days with gamers unless the games are targeted for "casuals".


Which is why Xseed is known for publishing shooters, sports games, racers and games with realistic graphics instead of obscure RPGs.
No Avatar
28 Dec 2012 19:40

VinLAURiA wrote:So that settles it. Rainfall was the catalyst for this. I think that means we can confidently say that Rainfall was a success, and not just a minor push. That gives me hope for future movements.

For XSEED publishing the game? Maybe.
For Nintendo publishing the game? Not at all.

And wasn't that the point of OP:Rainfall? To get Nintendo to publish the games? Nintendo published neither of them without outside intervention (GameStop, XSEED). In that regard, it failed spectacularly. There is nothing here that shows Nintendo is going to be changing their localization efforts in the future. All it says is that XSEED may be interested in publishing other Nintendo games if given the chance, which may never happen again. And there may be more future GameStop exclusives, which may never happen again. Nothing here says that Nintendo is going to start publishing more of their games overseas.

And I thought that was the whole point of OP:Rainfall. To get Nintendo, not other companies, to release more of their games outside of Japan.

Besides, both of these games had already been translated into English for the European market. Imagine if neither of them had received a translation before OP:Rainfall. Does anyone honestly believe that any company out there would have put in the money or effort to completely localize them? These games only made it because someone else already did all the hard work. Without that, they would never have been released.
User avatar
28 Dec 2012 21:12

I love how you guys just refuse to give credit to Rainfall. ok, M1 sort of has a point, that if everyone who signed the petition got the game, 100k would be a no brainer, but let's say Nintendo brought over the games and OPR never existed, these games would have bombed. Were the blockbuster success'? No, but they did decently. OPR made people aware of the game if they weren't before, and that in itself is commendable.
No Avatar
28 Dec 2012 22:08

TLS sold over 150k in the states. Thats pretty damn good. Xenoblade did close to 400k, again pretty damn good for two new IPs set in a genre that isnt very popular anymore on a console where only casual titles sell well. Here's hoping for an HD remaster for the Wii U for both these titles.
User avatar
28 Dec 2012 22:14

@Ragnarokstorymaker saying that the games would have bombed without Rainfall kind of proves that Nintendo shouldn't have brought the games over. If a massive fan campaign is needed for average at best sales on the console with the largest install base (and both games have pedigree and were received well by critics and fans alike) that doesn't leave confidence on future localizations.
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28 Dec 2012 23:47

I'm probably in the minority of this, but I enjoyed The Last Story moreso than Xenoblade.

The Last Story sucked me in as much as Kingdom Hearts did. That's pretty much on par with my favorite RPG. I love it very much, and thank you XSEED for bringing it over.
User avatar
29 Dec 2012 03:13

younghavok wrote:TLS sold over 150k in the states. Thats pretty damn good. Xenoblade did close to 400k, again pretty damn good for two new IPs set in a genre that isnt very popular anymore on a console where only casual titles sell well. Here's hoping for an HD remaster for the Wii U for both these titles.

Actually the last we heard two months ago TLS just fell short of 50k according to XSeed.
There is no way TLS pushed another 100k in the states even with the massive liquidation retailers gave it.

There is a reason why TLS was quickly reduced to $30 then on to $20 at most retailers before being discontinued.
There is also no way in hell Xenobalde has sold 400k copies by being a Gamestop exclusive in the states, especially with all hate Gamestop gets.

So quit using VGchartz numbers.
User avatar
29 Dec 2012 03:51

The Last Story bombed.

Truly supportive fan base.
No Avatar
Anonymous
29 Dec 2012 05:47

I'm glad it all worked out for Xseed. Now, maybe they're willing to reconsider localizing Retro Game Challenge 2... I can dream anyways. I'll take what I can get, and I'm thankful these guys are working to localize the kind of content they are. Hats off to the Xseed team!
No Avatar
29 Dec 2012 06:34

void3953 wrote:
VinLAURiA wrote:So that settles it. Rainfall was the catalyst for this. I think that means we can confidently say that Rainfall was a success, and not just a minor push. That gives me hope for future movements.

For XSEED publishing the game? Maybe.
For Nintendo publishing the game? Not at all.

And wasn't that the point of OP:Rainfall? To get Nintendo to publish the games? Nintendo published neither of them without outside intervention (GameStop, XSEED). In that regard, it failed spectacularly. There is nothing here that shows Nintendo is going to be changing their localization efforts in the future. All it says is that XSEED may be interested in publishing other Nintendo games if given the chance, which may never happen again. And there may be more future GameStop exclusives, which may never happen again. Nothing here says that Nintendo is going to start publishing more of their games overseas.

And I thought that was the whole point of OP:Rainfall. To get Nintendo, not other companies, to release more of their games outside of Japan.

Besides, both of these games had already been translated into English for the European market. Imagine if neither of them had received a translation before OP:Rainfall. Does anyone honestly believe that any company out there would have put in the money or effort to completely localize them? These games only made it because someone else already did all the hard work. Without that, they would never have been released.
actually there is an article on the Operation rainfall webpage from The Last Story month in which we suggested alternative means of distribution in a round table... we discussed retailer exclusives, and 3rd party licensing, as well as digital distribution (on the wii u), and alt branding (like how cartoon network has adult swim, and toyota has lexus). Operation Rainfall's intention was NEVER so limited.... we just wanted the games in north america legitimately
User avatar
29 Dec 2012 06:46

In spite of thinking that the Last Story was half-assed, I am still glad XSEED stepped up to release it here.
No Avatar
29 Dec 2012 06:47

Ragnarokstorymaker wrote:I love how you guys just refuse to give credit to Rainfall. ok, M1 sort of has a point, that if everyone who signed the petition got the game, 100k would be a no brainer, but let's say Nintendo brought over the games and OPR never existed, these games would have bombed. Were the blockbuster success'? No, but they did decently. OPR made people aware of the game if they weren't before, and that in itself is commendable.

Operation Rainfall was never a petition, somebody did make a petition which we used in addition to other things but it really didn't get many hits at all, and our facebook page only cleared around 13,000 likes which is the best representation of how many supporters we actually had... both games sold more than 13,000 copies... so that sentiment doesn't make sense. Operation Rainfall didn't get so much attention because of our size (the mega man legends 3 campaign absolutely dwarfed us), but rather because we thought outside the box... instead of focusing on a petition we organized mass contact days through snail mail, and social media hubs, we raised a bunch of money for child's play charity, we spiked sales of jrpgs on the virtual console, we got the obsolete "monado" listing on amazon to #1 in all games, we wrote articles created wallpapers and art, made videos, etc... that is how we got attention
User avatar
29 Dec 2012 12:59

@LegendofSantiago
I say that because we all know how Nintendo does with franchises that aren't already established, they don't market them well. And fan campaigns are sometimes needed for Nintendo to realize certain things and to make them aware, i.e. the creator of Earthbound. Now, the newest game hasn't come over, but he has clearly stated that he knows that there is demand for the games.
@themightyme
So, you pretty much proved my second point about making people aware of the games if they already weren't before.
User avatar
29 Dec 2012 13:45

@Ragnarokstorymaker
Actually Nintendo markets their new and lesser known titles in the U.S.

Eternal Darkness was given a huge blitz across the cable networks during adult programming at night.
That was not enough to get the game to sell well at all.

Star Adventure and Assault saw huge marketing campaigns only to bomb miserably.

Animal Crossing had a huge campaign and it actually went on to sell millions.

F-Zero GX had a huge marketing campaign and an anime show (which was canceled after the 10 episode, due to a lack of viewers).
The game still bombed to beyond belief.

This is not just epidemic to Nintendo, this happens to most publishers/developers in the U.S. on a regular basis.
The U.S. market tends to buy sequels and installments of established franchises over other games.
This also makes it harder to get retailers to stock those games as well.

As for Earthbound there is literally no way in hell any retailer in the U.S. will stock an Earthbound game and there is very little will at NoA to localize another Earthbound game.

The only game to get a U.S. release bombed so bad, all the retailers were stuck with stacks of the game.
They literally liquidated the stock to move them and no one still wanted them.
So it took them forever to sell the stock off a rock bottomed prices.

There is not enough demand to warrant the cost of localization.
User avatar
29 Dec 2012 20:36

@M1
You constantly just misread my posts, I said non established. FZero, Animal Crossing. and the other you've listed (except Eternal Darkness). Only because they didn't sell doesn't necessarily mean they are ''lesser known'' which obviously FZero and Star Fox Adventures didn't do but, again, they definitely aren't lesser known. And, again, you proved my point about EarthBound...
No Avatar
29 Dec 2012 23:09

Ragnarokstorymaker wrote:@LegendofSantiago
I say that because we all know how Nintendo does with franchises that aren't already established, they don't market them well. And fan campaigns are sometimes needed for Nintendo to realize certain things and to make them aware, i.e. the creator of Earthbound. Now, the newest game hasn't come over, but he has clearly stated that he knows that there is demand for the games.
@themightyme
So, you pretty much proved my second point about making people aware of the games if they already weren't before.

my only disagreement was that people think we didn't put our money where our mouths were since the game didn't break sales records.. I disagree with that sentiment... because we were never as big as some people seem to think we were, we saw campaigns spring upa round us inspired by what we did that very quickly dwarfed us in numbers (that mega man legends 3 campaign called "100k strong" actually did get over 100k... oprainfall RIGHT NOW is at 12,797... the reason oprainfall got so much attention was because we did allot more than simple garner likes... we campaigned HARD, we did a ton of hard work to make as big of an impact as possible... there are a few misconceptions that really bother me about oprainfall

- people often refer to us as a petition... we worked really hard to be much more than that and were inspired more by letter writing campaigns for cancelled television series than by past petitions.. we didn't even have a petition until somebody else made one a few days after we started

- people say we didn't back up our words with purchases.. WE DID.... not only did most of us buy both games, but some of us bought multiple copies, we also donated a a chunk of change to the child's play charity and bought jrpgs on the virtual console en masse on 1 day to try and spike Nintendo's data charts

those 2 misconceptions bother me more than those who say we had no impact, because it denies the sleepless nights we spent working our asses off to coordinate the movement, it makes it sound like we just set-up a petition and left it at that (I have done that before... I started one of the fragile dreams petitions, I don't think it even broke 1000 signatures, and it got no attention at all)

otherwise, I mostly agree with your points
No Avatar
31 Dec 2012 00:10

themightyme wrote:actually there is an article on the Operation rainfall webpage from The Last Story month in which we suggested alternative means of distribution in a round table... we discussed retailer exclusives, and 3rd party licensing, as well as digital distribution (on the wii u), and alt branding (like how cartoon network has adult swim, and toyota has lexus). Operation Rainfall's intention was NEVER so limited.... we just wanted the games in north america legitimately

None of which are actually viable alternatives to Nintendo publishing the games themselves.

Without Nintendo's direct support of localizing and publishing these games all you have is a massive quagmire where the best you can hope for is an outside source being willing and able to localize certain Nintendo titles that they can't or won't themselves. Yeah, Nintendo allowed XSEED to publish The Last Story and there is the whole GameStop exclusivity deal with Xenoblade Chronicles, but if Nintendo didn't see or get what they wanted out of those two deals, they may never allow another outside company to publish one of their titles again.

You're right back where you started.

OP:Rainfall may have been started by a group of fans trying to get a few games localized but the real problem has been and always will be Nintendo's willingness to self-publish their own titles on a world-wide basis. What happens the next time? What if The Last Story 2 is ever made but Nintendo was unhappy with the way the title was handled by XSEED so they won't allow them to publish it in regions that they don't or wont? What if XSEED doesn't even want to publish it? What if no other publishers are interested in the game either?

Nintendo needed to be the focus. Nintendo needed to be the publisher. Nintendo needed to be the one showing the willingness to publish and support the games. They didn't or couldn't for whatever reasons. Until those issues are resolved and Nintendo can or is willing to self-publish all of their games, all OP:Rainfall did was fulfill the wishes of a very small group of gamers.

It's like putting a banaid on a severed arm.

In that regard, dealing with the real issue, OP:Rainfall was a complete failure. That is undeniable.
No Avatar
31 Dec 2012 14:47

M1 wrote:
younghavok wrote:TLS sold over 150k in the states. Thats pretty damn good. Xenoblade did close to 400k, again pretty damn good for two new IPs set in a genre that isnt very popular anymore on a console where only casual titles sell well. Here's hoping for an HD remaster for the Wii U for both these titles.

Actually the last we heard two months ago TLS just fell short of 50k according to XSeed.
There is no way TLS pushed another 100k in the states even with the massive liquidation retailers gave it.

There is a reason why TLS was quickly reduced to $30 then on to $20 at most retailers before being discontinued.
There is also no way in hell Xenobalde has sold 400k copies by being a Gamestop exclusive in the states, especially with all hate Gamestop gets.

So quit using VGchartz numbers.


Show me your numbers, since you've clearly already seen mine. I'll wait... and if you can't, than tls sold over 150k in the states, and Xenoblade did close to 400k. Gamestop is one of the biggest game retailers in the country, and for a title like Xenoblade that is where gamers interested in that type of title would look. So its quite believable and possible.
User avatar
31 Dec 2012 15:41

younghavok wrote:
M1 wrote:
younghavok wrote:TLS sold over 150k in the states. Thats pretty damn good. Xenoblade did close to 400k, again pretty damn good for two new IPs set in a genre that isnt very popular anymore on a console where only casual titles sell well. Here's hoping for an HD remaster for the Wii U for both these titles.

Actually the last we heard two months ago TLS just fell short of 50k according to XSeed.
There is no way TLS pushed another 100k in the states even with the massive liquidation retailers gave it.

There is a reason why TLS was quickly reduced to $30 then on to $20 at most retailers before being discontinued.
There is also no way in hell Xenobalde has sold 400k copies by being a Gamestop exclusive in the states, especially with all hate Gamestop gets.

So quit using VGchartz numbers.


Show me your numbers, since you've clearly already seen mine. I'll wait... and if you can't, than tls sold over 150k in the states, and Xenoblade did close to 400k. Gamestop is one of the biggest game retailers in the country, and for a title like Xenoblade that is where gamers interested in that type of title would look. So its quite believable and possible.


We already have Xseed on record for TLS from last month (it was posted on this site), claiming TLS sold about 50k being their biggest title every!

Xenoblade was not the type of game that made gamers rush out and buy it here in the states.
Gamers hate Gamestop and Nintendo!
So why would they buy Xenoblade?

Remember EGM gave Xenoblade a 6/10, panning the game.

The last "leaked" figures showed Xenoblade sold about 200k, but NPD wont release the official numbers (The story was posted on here a few months ago).

Also VGchartz is banned on site due to their unreliable numbers.

VGChartz states Simcity 4 has only sold 700k worldwide when EA's numbers put it over 8M.

Also they claim Black Ops II sold 10k on Wii U, when Activision said it sold almost 30k.
User avatar
31 Dec 2012 16:05

A lot of Publishers use the word "shipped" instead of "sold" to inflate numbers. Just something to keep in mind when quoting and figures. Shipped =/= sold

XSeed don't appear to have given any indication as to what TLS Sold, just saying it's their best selling game.

VGChartz, as a source, is not "banned" from Gonintendo :roll:

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