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GN Podcast #453

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Avalanche has no plans for Wii U, says Nintendo hard to reach, Wii U dev kits collecting dust

These tidbits comes from a Google translated article...

- Avalanche has no plans for Wii U
- Have a couple of Wii U dev kits that only collects dust
- Too small install base according to Avalanche's Christofer Sundberg
- Nintendo is hard to reach, you never know how to contact them
- Believes Nintendo has a lot to win with copying Sony, reach out to developers, create enthusiasm

Check out the full Google translated article here (thanks Emily!)

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58 total comments (View all)
User avatar
08 May 2013 15:29

@internet
@midorigreen

You're both thinking of the wrong developer. The Avalanche in this news story is the Swedish developer that made Just Cause 2.

The Disney studio you're talking about is Avalanche Software.
User avatar
08 May 2013 16:11

Hawk wrote:@internet
@midorigreen

You're both thinking of the wrong developer. The Avalanche in this news story is the Swedish developer that made Just Cause 2.

The Disney studio you're talking about is Avalanche Software.


Then this clears things up, then. Got really confused there.
User avatar
08 May 2013 16:58

A lot of things in my room collect dust, even my Wii U that I use almost everyday. Honestly, everytime someone says "X is collecting dust!", I think to myself how dirty that person is. You're bragging about yourself not taking care of your stuff and being dirty? Ok. Nice to know.
User avatar
08 May 2013 17:39

And that's another studio in the long list that isn't developing for Wii U. Hm.

komicturtle92 wrote:A lot of things in my room collect dust, even my Wii U that I use almost everyday. Honestly, everytime someone says "X is collecting dust!", I think to myself how dirty that person is. You're bragging about yourself not taking care of your stuff and being dirty? Ok. Nice to know.


I would imagine it's more figurative than literal.
User avatar
08 May 2013 18:37

@komicturtle92

I agree. I hate the term "collecting dust". It has become a lazy way of saying "I don't play _____ anymore".
User avatar
08 May 2013 19:43

Lemme get this straight, the Wii U hasn't sold enough for you to warrant making games for it. yet developers are more then willing to risk EVERYTHING on making games for the PS4 and NextBox. Also because you are unwilling to make games for the Wii U it tells me you are not confident in your games being able to move systems.
User avatar
08 May 2013 20:04

TayterTot wrote:It seems like everyday on Twitter, some indie dev is announcing a new game for WiiU. This argument holds no water.

American Indie games. These guys are Swedish.

enigmaxtreme wrote:Lemme get this straight, the Wii U hasn't sold enough for you to warrant making games for it. yet developers are more then willing to risk EVERYTHING on making games for the PS4 and NextBox. Also because you are unwilling to make games for the Wii U it tells me you are not confident in your games being able to move systems.

The narrow audience that will buy those consoles is definitely going to buy third party games, like they always have. Thats why developers will work on these platforms despite the zero userbase.
User avatar
08 May 2013 20:05

ddddd wrote:
ZS wrote:Wow, ANOTHER instance of Nintendo not giving one fucking shovel about developers. One of the biggest companies in the gaming world, and Nintendo can't get their shovel together on this? Embarrassing.

Dont worry, Nintendo will ignore this issue and fans will blame the third parties instead.


Are both of you this adamant at proving a point with Nintendo not caring about third party developers? Like really, it's been a driven down meme that mostly points fingers at Nintendo fully instead of not bringing the fault to even third parties too. Since, you know, THIRD PARTIES ARE NOT STRANGERS TO SCREWING UP EITHER.

Though i await for this post to get re-visioned into another blind fanboy defense/it's all third party devs fault! when it comes to countering responses like these.

ddddd wrote:
enigmaxtreme wrote:Lemme get this straight, the Wii U hasn't sold enough for you to warrant making games for it. yet developers are more then willing to risk EVERYTHING on making games for the PS4 and NextBox. Also because you are unwilling to make games for the Wii U it tells me you are not confident in your games being able to move systems.

The narrow audience that will buy those consoles is definitely going to buy third party games, like they always have. Thats why developers will work on these platforms despite the zero userbase.


Yet an audience with a zero userbase is impossible for the Wii U? That doesn't even factor higher development costs, which i could hypothesize as one reason why we are seeing much more cross gen games announced currently rather than exclusives.
User avatar
08 May 2013 20:09

ZS wrote:Because indie games can be largely programmed on a PC, where you don't need access to every optimization tool that a dev kit would allow. Meanwhile, AAA development needs to take all of that into account much more early on.

Let's stop making up excuses for Nintendo. They are big boys, they should be on top of this. We're hearing constant reports that they aren't. If a dozen development houses are unable to get in contact, that's a concern.


You're saying that the third party that has enough man power to get a hold of Nintendo in more ways than an indie can shouldn't have to? Yet independent studios all over are able to get a hold of them (including my team) on an almost daily basis. Hell even Precursor has been able to pull this off.

Does that not strike you as odd to you at some point in typing that?
User avatar
08 May 2013 20:11

ZS wrote:
Aiddon wrote:
Or, y'know, another case of a developer being lazy because they expect Nintendo to do everything FOR them.


It was reported by multiple dev houses that the documentation for the Wii U dev kits was atrocious at best. Not to mention the numerous revisions Nintendo sent out, many of which were gimped in strange ways.


Please bring out a source to this, literally. I'm interested after hearing this claim.
User avatar
08 May 2013 20:20

Rurouni720 wrote:Are both of you this adamant at proving a point with Nintendo not caring about third party developers? Like really, it's been a driven down meme that mostly points fingers at Nintendo fully instead of not bringing the fault to even third parties too. Since, you know, THIRD PARTIES ARE NOT STRANGERS TO SCREWING UP EITHER.

Though i await for this post to get re-visioned into another blind fanboy defense/it's all third party devs fault! when it comes to countering responses like these.

This guy just said Nintendo is not comunicating with them. I don't see why I should stab Avalanche with pitchforks like everyone here...

Rurouni720 wrote:
ddddd wrote:The narrow audience that will buy those consoles is definitely going to buy third party games, like they always have. Thats why developers will work on these platforms despite the zero userbase.

Yet an audience with a zero userbase is impossible for the Wii U?

What does that mean? :?
User avatar
08 May 2013 20:36

ddddd wrote:
Rurouni720 wrote:Are both of you this adamant at proving a point with Nintendo not caring about third party developers? Like really, it's been a driven down meme that mostly points fingers at Nintendo fully instead of not bringing the fault to even third parties too. Since, you know, THIRD PARTIES ARE NOT STRANGERS TO SCREWING UP EITHER.

Though i await for this post to get re-visioned into another blind fanboy defense/it's all third party devs fault! when it comes to countering responses like these.

This guy just said Nintendo is not comunicating with them. I don't see why I should stab Avalanche with pitchforks like everyone here...


I was merely referencing how when it comes to third parties, it's always Nintendo fault and how they "don't care" enough for them when it was stressed in Nintendo's recent financial briefing that they are aware about the situation with third parties skipping out on putting their games on the Wii U, in which Nintendo intends to rectify the situation. I mean good god i realize that fanboys are no better at all either, but it gets sick and tiring when we have to endure constant negative surroundings around the Wii U (even if it is partly admittedly Nintendo's fault for winging it last year). Along with how others shouldn't get their hopes up for the Wii U to have a bright future, as if it's totally out of Nintendo's hands to fix mistakes either created from themselves or from others.

Rurouni720 wrote:
ddddd wrote:The narrow audience that will buy those consoles is definitely going to buy third party games, like they always have. Thats why developers will work on these platforms despite the zero userbase.

Yet an audience with a zero userbase is impossible for the Wii U?

What does that mean? :?[/quote]

Pardon me if my sentence was confusing. I meant as in, how is it impossible for the Wii U to carve out the an audience for big companies to sell their games to, on it's current low userbase?
User avatar
08 May 2013 21:06

theyve made how many games?... 3? just cause, just cause 2 and some xbox live game? yeah... dont care..
User avatar
08 May 2013 21:49

ddddd wrote:
Rurouni720 wrote:
ddddd wrote:The narrow audience that will buy those consoles is definitely going to buy third party games, like they always have. Thats why developers will work on these platforms despite the zero userbase.

Yet an audience with a zero userbase is impossible for the Wii U?

What does that mean? :?

Pardon me if my sentence was confusing. I meant as in, how is it impossible for the Wii U to carve out the an audience for big companies to sell their games to, on it's current low userbase?[/quote]
Because, and this is something Ive stated before, Nintendo doesn't target the narrow audience that third parties and SONY/MS do. Nintendo targets everyone, and this includes hardcores, but they share the demographic pie chart with plenty more users (Nintendo only fans, casuals, families). Playstations and XBOXes go primarily for the stereotypical gamer, teh harcorz, and these guys are the ones buy a lot of multiplatform third party games. Creating an audience can't be done in one night, there are a lot of AAA core games on WiiU right now, but if the audience only cares about NintendoLand and New Super Mario Bros U, then third parties will never be too eager to support WiiU.
Its true that many third party games have missing features or worse graphics, but how can the audience at large, the mainstreams, know this? Reviews often paste the same score across all versions so they can't be getting this from there, and to know if a game has lobbies or youtube streaming you have to know about these things before hand, mom and dad will probably not be browsing GoNintendo to do research about how good third party games are on wiiu. We also have PS360 users, that already have achievements and friend lists for all these game franchises, and many of them won't choose a wiiu version over their existent console one. Then we have the Nintendo only fans, who aren't into Battlefields or Darksiders or GTAs, look around this place, you won't have trouble finding people who is disgusted by these games.
I sincerily believe Nintendo is the one that has to create the audience for these games, otherwise I really doubt Nintendo consumers will care about them.
No Avatar
08 May 2013 21:57

kernal wrote:theyve made how many games?... 3? just cause, just cause 2 and some xbox live game? yeah... dont care..


The devs from CD Project have only made 2 games - The Witcher and The Witcher 2. So, should we not care about them at all too?
User avatar
08 May 2013 22:35

All new consoles have small install bases. There isn't anything that can change that...

Still, that large install base didn't help out the Wii at all. Nintendo can never win it seems.
User avatar
08 May 2013 23:01

Nintendo is hard to reach. That's some funny ass sh*t, considering I've literally heard nothing but the exact opposite from pretty much every other indie developer out there, especially recently. So yeah, I'm gonna call BS.
User avatar
08 May 2013 23:20

ZS wrote:Wow, ANOTHER instance of Nintendo not giving one fucking shovel about developers. One of the biggest companies in the gaming world, and Nintendo can't get their shovel together on this? Embarrassing.


ZS are you some kind of serial Troll!
Every response you make is against the people who support Nintendo or Nintendo themselves, do you do this because its your job for some kind of pr branch or are you just a ahole and like to piss people off, seriously get a life if your not doing this because your hired to make annoyance purposly for those here then you really need a life!

As far as Nintendo concerns, I've been around them since the downfall of Atari, turbo graphic, sega, neo geo, Phillips Cdi , PlayStation, all of them companies a shadows of what they were, all of them thinking they could buy their way out instead of making smart economical gaming decisions, and yet Nintendo for 112 years and still going, and ZS they did it as ONLY A GAME COMPANY!
User avatar
08 May 2013 23:21

TopCat wrote:
kernal wrote:theyve made how many games?... 3? just cause, just cause 2 and some xbox live game? yeah... dont care..


The devs from CD Project have only made 2 games - The Witcher and The Witcher 2. So, should we not care about them at all too?


uh.. sure?... personally, i dont..

look, i think some small devs have gotten a little big for their britches.

as far as being in contact with nintendo.. now, some devs say they are in constant contact with nintendo and that nintendo gives guidance and advice.. so i honestly dont know how believable this scenario is.. and copying off of sony? no thanks..
User avatar
08 May 2013 23:26

ddddd wrote:
I sincerily believe Nintendo is the one that has to create the audience for these games, otherwise I really doubt Nintendo consumers will care about them.


I like this quote, but it sucks that its most likely true. They have to create the audience, but they seem set on releasing new versions of familiar franchises which wont bring in anyone new. Other games they have a hand in like X and Bayonetta could help create that audience but from them, i haven't seen anything that shows me they are even trying. Maybe Retro can create that audience for them. Maybe they need to bring back Project Hammer or Disaster Day of Crisis(i think that was the name), those games are different than what they normally do.
User avatar
09 May 2013 00:02

Can't say I'm surprised at this, but at this rate, other 3rd parties will join EA in their journey to get an 'unprecedent partnership' with Nintendo, thank goodness for indie devs.
User avatar
09 May 2013 00:56

I think there are certain big publishers that you can count on to stick with Nintendo. Sega would be one of them, because by and large their games, especially their Sonic related games, have consistently sold well on Nintendo systems. Ubisoft, despite their retarded Rayman debacle, which is still absurd, seem to be supporting Wii U stronger than ever, with just about every one of their major titles coming out for it. GTAV still hasn't been confirmed one way or the other to my knowledge, but the rumor is it's Wii U bound. Activision seems to like money more than EA, thus they are more than likely putting the new CoD on Wii U. Konami is a strange beast, in that they didn't even support Wii all that much, and haven't honestly put much out for a Nintendo home console since the N64 (which sucks, shame on them), yet have always strongly supported their handhelds. Capcom did just put out Monster Hunter 3 HD, and are putting out the RE Revelations remake. So that's nice. We'll see whether or not they follow through and actually put the next Dead Rising/Street Fighter/RE/Whatever on Wii U. And Square is Square....who knows what they'll do, but they'd be smart to go ahead and release DQX in the states if they want to actually make any money off of it (because it's not doing great in Japan, and "The West" seems to be more into online gaming). Warner Bros. Interactive also likes money, hence Lego games, hence next Batman coming to Wii U, etc.

EA really is the only MAJOR offender right now as far as big 3rd party devs goes. Of course there are other "not coming to Wii U" examples, but the other major publishers mostly seem to be supporting it at least a little, and if Rockstar actually puts GTAV on Wii U that'll certainly be a first. Honestly, with at least decently solid "big 3rd party" support, and a major bolstering of smaller indie games (that the other consoles I'm willing to bet won't get in many cases), I think I'd be just fine with EA continuing to act like a bunch of spoiled brats.

In fact I'd be just fine if companies like EA and Activision disappeared off the face of the planet, but that's another story..... :lol:
User avatar
09 May 2013 00:58

Mako wrote:All new consoles have small install bases. There isn't anything that can change that...

Still, that large install base didn't help out the Wii at all. Nintendo can never win it seems.

When dealing with consoles with large *or* small install bases, major publishers are always going to look at the attach-rate and what the install base has been proven to want. Taken alone, 100 million Wiis sold is an impressive number. However, if a certain genre only sells to maybe 1% of that userbase at best, then one's efforts as a developer are better spent on other types of games that will appeal to a much larger portion of the market.

The Wii U's low install base is less of an issue than the fact that those that *do* own the system are not buying much in the way of games. Granted, we can currently chalk that up to the library lacking much in the way of must-haves, but the question (and the thing that the bigger pubishers are going to be looking at) is whether or not that changes as more software does come out.

This sort of thing obviously matters less to 'indies', as their products are by design built to appeal to a more limited segment of the market, so Avalanche either thinks far too highly of themselves or is just making excuses.
User avatar
09 May 2013 03:35

That's... their loss. Simple as that.
User avatar
09 May 2013 05:36

Devil_Rising wrote:Nintendo is hard to reach. That's some funny ass sh*t, considering I've literally heard nothing but the exact opposite from pretty much every other indie developer out there, especially recently. So yeah, I'm gonna call BS.

We've heard stories from American Indie games, these guys are Swedish.

@Devil_Rising
The spoiled brats, AKA EA, at this day have released more retail games than Capcom and SEGA combined :?

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