What, no marijuana debate thread?

[Darth Vader]

Seems like one of the first you'd see in a debate forum. Well, whatever. There is one now. So let's get to it! What is your personal stance on marijuana and hemp? Do you approve or disapprove of the fact that it is a criminalized substance in some countries, and why?

I'll post my stance on all this madness but only once I see a debate start to form.

[cortjezter]

well considering it's a mind and behavior alterting substance, i do believe the government (US, since that's where we are) should regulate it in terms of safeness, purity, etc. the underground methods of production can contain many more harmful chemicals and be quite dangerous. they should also probably establish what are "safe" levels of chemicals to have in your system at any one time (not unlike the BAC limits for drunkenness). notice the quotes around safe.

it's not healthy.. but then neither is drinking or smoking nicotine. or eating fast food, among tons of other things in our daily lives that are already legal. i think if legalised here in america it would provide a tremendous source of tax revenue, and effectively reduce the resources needed to patrol the illegal production and sales.

you'll still never get me to stick that crap in my body either way, but then again i don't really need it; i'm strange enough as it is.

[Jirachi]

I hate it marijuana it is bad If you saw what is does to a love one of mine you'd never defend sure it ain't as bad as alcohol or nicotine bad but it still is bad I makes me sad and angry to see it's effects on my loved one

[PaperLink64]

If it's legalized, it should be used in designated areas only, preferable away from areas where kids gather.

At the very least it'll keep people from killing each other over it.

[SEGAsbest]

well considering it's a mind and behavior alterting substance, i do believe the government (US, since that's where we are) should regulate it in terms of safeness, purity, etc. the underground methods of production can contain many more harmful chemicals and be quite dangerous. they should also probably establish what are "safe" levels of chemicals to have in your system at any one time (not unlike the BAC limits for drunkenness). notice the quotes around safe.

it's not healthy.. but then neither is drinking or smoking nicotine. or eating fast food, among tons of other things in our daily lives that are already legal. i think if legalised here in america it would provide a tremendous source of tax revenue, and effectively reduce the resources needed to patrol the illegal production and sales.

you'll still never get me to stick that crap in my body either way, but then again i don't really need it; i'm strange enough as it is.

My thoughts exactly, I refuse to smoke weed, never have and never will.

As an avid cyclist I avoid most things that will damage my body, I even bother eating organic and holding my breath when I walk past smokers (that's because A. it smells horrid, B. it's bad for me and C. it makes me feel sick). One thing I will say is that the pot heads I do know are the only people with a bad habit who try and call it 'healthy' and defend it. Not really relevant, but I find it funny.

I say legalize it, but tax it and put restrictions on it, particularly making driving illegal while using the substance.

[coffeewithchess]

Well, I don't do drugs and I don't drink alcoholic beverages either.
I've got several reasons, but the main one is as Cort already mentioned.
My brain is screwed up enough as it is, I don't need a weed or alcohol speeding along the process even faster.

I know one weed head. Guy is off his rocker crazy. He will claim he is the most normal person in the world, but he talks like he is on speed or something and like he is on an adrenaline rush 24/7.

As for making it legal, I don't think it should be up to the federal government anyway on topics like these. Let the states decide.

Also, like Segabest said, kind of strange, I hold my breath walking past smokers, but I also hold my breath if I see/hear somebody sneeze in my general area as well. LOL, odd indeed!

[cortjezter]

Also, like Segabest said, kind of strange, I hold my breath walking past smokers, but I also hold my breath if I see/hear somebody sneeze in my general area as well. LOL, odd indeed!

i'm the same way... and if three gaming nerds on an internet forum do it, it's not odd, it's mainstream.

also, if i'm not mistaken, things like alcohol and smoking laws currently are left to states and sometimes even municipalities, but at the same time, sort of influenced by other things at the federal level (such as reduced or no federal funding for certain programs if their state drinking age is below 21, etc.) i'd fully support state-level legislation for marijuana.

oh, and here's a typical night at the jezter abode in case you want to see me... eating an orange:

[Darth Vader]

I agree with the standpoint that it should be taxed and regulated as Alcohol is. Kept out of our roads, too. Considering it's a far safer substance than the things considered 'legal' in this country (and especially considering both hemp and marijuana have a myriad of uses), I don't see any good reason to keep it criminalized.

it's not healthy.. but then neither is drinking or smoking nicotine. or eating fast food, among tons of other things in our daily lives that are already legal. i think if legalised here in america it would provide a tremendous source of tax revenue, and effectively reduce the resources needed to patrol the illegal production and sales.

Here's the thing about marijuana - while it can be unhealthy (specifically if you're using methods where you inhale black smoke), not only are there methods to use it that aren't particularly unhealthy (they may temporarily paralyze the cillia but this does not result in any damage whatsoever), but chemical agents commonly found in things like tobacco smoke that allow them to be so harmful are nowhere to be found when it comes to burning marijuana.

Given its potency as a natural medicinal alternative, I'd even argue that it's healthy for you, given certain (numerous, but certain) circumstances.

I hate it marijuana it is bad If you saw what is does to a love one of mine you'd never defend sure it ain't as bad as alcohol or nicotine bad but it still is bad I makes me sad and angry to see it's effects on my loved one

I'd hate to ask this (as I've had people close to me addicted to drugs in the past, and yeah, it totally sucks), but could you elaborate? Considering that weed isn't an addictive drug (at least, not in the traditional sense - you could love it and desire more, but that's a purely psychological result of having enjoyed the drug in the first place, and not your body beginning to feel a need for more of the drug as is the case with actual addictive substances out there), it's hard to imagine someone who truly ends up changed by it's effects. Of course, I've seen people who end up spending unholy amounts of money and time on marijuana - just as I've seen people who do the same with legalized drugs. Difference here, at least to me, is that marijuana does very little (if any) long term harm.

If it's legalized, it should be used in designated areas only, preferable away from areas where kids gather.

At the very least it'll keep people from killing each other over it.

If it were legalized, who'd be killing over it?
Remember criminal gangs, and how they flourished during the prohibition?
How long did they last (at least, as alcohol providers) once it was repealed?

The main reason violence exists between drug dealers today is because many see each other as being competition. If it's legalized, bam, they're no longer competition to each other because the price of weed drops like a rock (much of its price is artificially inflated due to the means by which its transported and the danger involved) and they no longer stand much of a chance against a new retail market for the drug.

I absolutely agree with you, though, in that, just like alcohol, it should be kept out of the hands of those who might abuse it or are too young to use it responsibly.

Legalizing would assist tremendously towards that goal.

One thing I will say is that the pot heads I do know are the only people with a bad habit who try and call it 'healthy' and defend it. Not really relevant, but I find it funny.

Not nearly as funny as people who know little about pot basing their entire assessment on the drug on the negative stigma its been associated with, which in turn is based on yellow journalism and reports that were debunked ages ago.

I'm not saying that's what you're doing - it's just a social phenomenon you end up seeing a lot more often than the one you claim to see. It's also one that happens to be a hundred times more ridiculous and nonsensical.

I don't agree with people who spend the majority of their paycheck on substances like pot - or cigs, or alcohol - but I also wouldn't consider the casual intake of marijuana a 'bad habit' either.

I know one weed head. Guy is off his rocker crazy. He will claim he is the most normal person in the world, but he talks like he is on speed or something and like he is on an adrenaline rush 24/7.

Are you sure that's the weed and not just his personality? Because trust me, marijuana has the exact opposite effect on the majority of people - it's a calming drug, more than anything else.

[coffeewithchess]

Are you sure that's the weed and not just his personality? Because trust me, marijuana has the exact opposite effect on the majority of people - it's a calming drug, more than anything else.

If weed has a calming effect, it doesn't work on this guy. He is hyperactive like crazy and he smokes the stuff on a regular basis.

BTW, I've heard the argument that our government keeps it illegal, because certain branches actually are helping run the drug cartels making the big money. If it were legal, the price would drop like crazy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_drug_trafficking

I know it's wikipedia, but at least that's a brief article on it.

Also, I find it very interesting how after we invaded Afghanistan, the country became a huge exporter of opium(I think the largest now).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_prod ... ite_note-0

[SEGAsbest]

1. Given its potency as a natural medicinal alternative, I'd even argue that it's healthy for you, given certain (numerous, but certain) circumstances.

One thing I will say is that the pot heads I do know are the only people with a bad habit who try and call it 'healthy' and defend it. Not really relevant, but I find it funny.

2. Not nearly as funny as people who know little about pot basing their entire assessment on the drug on the negative stigma its been associated with, which in turn is based on yellow journalism and reports that were debunked ages ago.

I'm not saying that's what you're doing - it's just a social phenomenon you end up seeing a lot more often than the one you claim to see. It's also one that happens to be a hundred times more ridiculous and nonsensical.

I don't agree with people who spend the majority of their paycheck on substances like pot - or cigs, or alcohol - but I also wouldn't consider the casual intake of marijuana a 'bad habit' either.

1. First off, the medicinal benefits are really only beneficial if you actually have a condition in the first place, this is exactly what I mean when I say 'argue that it's healthy'. Even through "safer" methods of consumption like vaporization you still have a higher chance than a non-smoker of developing respiratory issues.

Just as well documented, is that marijuana users have a much higher chance of developing depression and anxiety (see link 2). Less studied, potentially negative effects of Mary Jane, include a higher chance of developing schizophrenia, as well as a higher chance of stroke later in life.

While I do think it should be legalized, and they definitely aren't as bad as cigs, the negative health effects are still there and should be recognized.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1853086/?tool=pmcentrez
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1853086/?tool=pmcentrez

2. If you aren't saying that I am doing it, then why did you mention it? Not trying to be a smart a$$, honest question.

[New Age Retro Hippie]

The legalisation of marijuana would give us a ton of money.

[cortjezter]

anything that is lit, smoked/inhaled is carcinogenic. even hookah bars that use fruits and other seemingly innocuous things... the mere process of burning things produces chemical compounds that can do harm to the body. there's simply no way around it... if you can and do smoke it, it is bad for you.

the thing i'd be interested to know is how any governing body could legislate things like being high while driving, since marijuana is notorious for lingering in the body for upwards of a month after a single dose. surely people couldn't be kept from going to work or the supermarket for weeks after their last hit... not that they'd actually be motivated to go anywhere

[SEGAsbest]

anything that is lit, smoked/inhaled is carcinogenic. even hookah bars that use fruits and other seemingly innocuous things... the mere process of burning things produces chemical compounds that can do harm to the body. there's simply no way around it... if you can and do smoke it, it is bad for you.

the thing i'd be interested to know is how any governing body could legislate things like being high while driving, since marijuana is notorious for lingering in the body for upwards of a month after a single dose. surely people couldn't be kept from going to work or the supermarket for weeks after their last hit... not that they'd actually be motivated to go anywhere

Yes, but I think he was referring to methods such as vaporizing the marijuana, or eating it. Otherwise, in terms of smoking it, you are absolutely correct.

You also bring up a interesting question, how long would one have to wait until after a hit to drive? How would the police be able to determine this if they pulled them over? It's a good question to raise, I have no clue how to answer it, and if pot was legalized significant studies into the matter would have to be done.

I think people return to normal function within a reasonable time, but that's from my personal sampling (seeing people smoke it) and obviously people react different ways to the drug than others, so studies will definitely be necessary.

[New Age Retro Hippie]

Oh, and the illegalisation of marijuana just makes us spend money on punishing non-violent offenders and putting money in the hands of unscrupulous people. To eliminate a non-criminal element, we do something that creates a criminal element that regularly includes murder, theft, and in general putting these average joes at risk because they want some marijuana to help them get through the week.

[Darth Vader]

1. First off, the medicinal benefits are really only beneficial if you actually have a condition in the first place, this is exactly what I mean when I say 'argue that it's healthy'. Even through "safer" methods of consumption like vaporization you still have a higher chance than a non-smoker of developing respiratory issues.
This is true. The chance is still low, though, especially when compared to legal alternatives.

Just as well documented, is that marijuana users have a much higher chance of developing depression and anxiety (see link 2). Less studied, potentially negative effects of Mary Jane, include a higher chance of developing schizophrenia, as well as a higher chance of stroke later in life.
I've seen evidence that marijuana can exacerbate schizophrenia once the condition exists, but none that link to weed causing it directly. As far as studies that link marijuana to depression and anxiety go, the vast majority of them don't consider the fact that it's not necessarily the drug that leads to depression and anxiety, so much as the lifestyle of the person being studied - after all, those more likely to try drugs - especially illegal ones - are those who aren't in a very good position in life to begin with.

While I do think it should be legalized, and they definitely aren't as bad as cigs, the negative health effects are still there and should be recognized.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1853086/?tool=pmcentrez
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1853086/?tool=pmcentrez

2. If you aren't saying that I am doing it, then why did you mention it? Not trying to be a smart a$$, honest question. Only because I see that more often than I see what you'd claimed. I can't tell you how many times I've been told by people that smoking will destroy my life, and when I ask them why, I get responses like "uh iono it kills your brain" or "because it's illegal". At least arguing for marijuana requires at least a little bit of research before hand - something I don't feel many of the people who argue against it, in my experience, have had.

anything that is lit, smoked/inhaled is carcinogenic. even hookah bars that use fruits and other seemingly innocuous things... the mere process of burning things produces chemical compounds that can do harm to the body. there's simply no way around it... if you can and do smoke it, it is bad for you.

the thing i'd be interested to know is how any governing body could legislate things like being high while driving, since marijuana is notorious for lingering in the body for upwards of a month after a single dose. surely people couldn't be kept from going to work or the supermarket for weeks after their last hit... not that they'd actually be motivated to go anywhere

I'm not trying to claim that marijuana smoke is harmless. I'm just trying to point out that, as I'd said above, it's much less harmless than many of the things I can go out and buy from my local grocer.

As for the whole driving thing, that is a good point. It'd be difficult to test someone to find out if they were driving high - not because it wouldn't show up, but because it may show up regardless of whether or not they were high when they were pulled over.

It'll take anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour and a half to come down from a high, typically, but it does remain in your system for days, even weeks.

[Sigtaro]

If they legalized all drugs I think it would be great for the economy. If most people were well educated about them and society in America did not make such a taboo out of it then the mysticism surrounding it might go away. The whole tax thing is stupid.

Netherland and Drugs. It's not totally illegal, but the effects are amazing.
http://www.drugpolicy.org/global/drugpo ... netherlan/

[karkashan]

It's illegal, and I think that's perfectly all right. I'm looking forward to the day when people stop complaining that it is. It's illegal and people just need to get over it and move on with their lives.

I'll probably be dead, but I'll look forward to it nonetheless.

[Darth Vader]

It's illegal, and I think that's perfectly all right. I'm looking forward to the day when people stop complaining that it is. It's illegal and people just need to get over it and move on with their lives.

I'll probably be dead, but I'll look forward to it nonetheless.

It'll likely be legalized in most (if not all) US states long before you're dead, pal.

At any rate, this is a unique standpoint to take, even if I disagree with it with every fiber of my being. I suppose we should just stop challenging authority altogether, you know? We've just got to accept the status quo. Doesn't matter if we think a decision made by the government is wrong, ill-formed, whatever. They're in power, who am I to disagree with em rite?

rite?

/trollan

no seriously, I was just trollan. I do wonder why you're so against people calling for legalization, though, considering the nature of the drug and how asinine many drug laws have become to begin with.

[karkashan]

It'll likely be legalized in most (if not all) US states long before you're dead, pal.

At any rate, this is a unique standpoint to take, even if I disagree with it with every fiber of my being. I suppose we should just stop challenging authority altogether, you know? We've just got to accept the status quo. Doesn't matter if we think a decision made by the government is wrong, ill-formed, whatever. They're in power, who am I to disagree with em rite?

rite?

/trollan

no seriously, I was just trollan. I do wonder why you're so against people calling for legalization, though, considering the nature of the drug and how asinine many drug laws have become to begin with.

To be truthful, a couple of classmates of mine, who had been good friends with me in my younger days, got killed in an auto accident, one that they could have easily avoided. It was later discovered that they had all been high to one various degree or another. Everybody at first thought it was some type of drug like cocaine or meth, but as it turns out they had been smoking marijuana and had been unable to function well enough to save their own lives.

And that's why.

[Darth Vader]

Sorry bro. I've never been put in a situation like that but I know quite a few people whose lives have been negatively impacted by people who choose not to be responsible with drugs and alcohol. I can certainly imagine why you'd be against marijuana.

I don't believe that limiting personal freedoms by criminalizing marijuana is the answer, though. I don't think there's any definitive 'answer' when it comes to keeping things like this out of the hands of people who would abuse it, but I do believe regulating sales similar to how alcohol is handled would be a step in the right direction. I'm not naive enough to think that this would keep it out of the wrong hands, but it certainly would help to keep it out of the hands of those who've been proven themselves to be irresponsible in the past.

[cortjezter]

I don't believe that limiting personal freedoms by criminalizing marijuana is the answer, though.

exactly.. i think criminalising irresponsible manufacture and use of it should be. but the substance itself should be exploited for a potentially awesome new source of tax revenue.

[The_Hangman]

Legalize it. Tax the hell out of it. Make it it illegal for those 17 and under. Make it illegal for drivers - no tolerance and such. So, it'll be like alcohol, except marginally safer.

Not only will you get some sexy revenue, you might lower drug-related crimes.

[thresholdXCI]

Legalize it. Tax the hell out of it. Make it it illegal for those 17 and under. Make it illegal for drivers - no tolerance and such. So, it'll be like alcohol, except marginally safer.

Not only will you get some sexy revenue, you might lower drug-related crimes.

Precisely. Plus, I think Cort mentioned it before, but by legalising it it'll definitely allow for some proper regulations in terms of drug quality/ strength etc. Thereby it would make it much easier for anyone who wishes to use it to better manage their use.

As a side note; one of the leading advisors to the government (over here) was sacked recently for going on the record saying that marijuana poses less health risks than alcohol or cigarettes. Now I don't know about you guys but I'm more inclined to trust an opinion based on actual scientific research over a preconceived one by some government bod.

[Sigtaro]

It'll likely be legalized in most (if not all) US states long before you're dead, pal.

At any rate, this is a unique standpoint to take, even if I disagree with it with every fiber of my being. I suppose we should just stop challenging authority altogether, you know? We've just got to accept the status quo. Doesn't matter if we think a decision made by the government is wrong, ill-formed, whatever. They're in power, who am I to disagree with em rite?

rite?

/trollan

no seriously, I was just trollan. I do wonder why you're so against people calling for legalization, though, considering the nature of the drug and how asinine many drug laws have become to begin with.

To be truthful, a couple of classmates of mine, who had been good friends with me in my younger days, got killed in an auto accident, one that they could have easily avoided. It was later discovered that they had all been high to one various degree or another. Everybody at first thought it was some type of drug like cocaine or meth, but as it turns out they had been smoking marijuana and had been unable to function well enough to save their own lives.

And that's why.

Responsibility to the responsible. Your classmates are at fault here. My uncle is an alcoholic and he almost died from it. He broke my grandmother's heart with all his violent actions and that probably contributed to her death shortly after. That is not going to stop my drinking. I'm not angry with alcohol or it being legal, but if my uncle comes close to any people I love or even me and brings trash into their lives or mine he's going to get bruised.

So what's with the high taxing guys? There's still a big problem with alcohol. Make something forbiddingly sexy and it's bound to burst into a volcanic mess only because it was suppressed. While alcohol may be legal there's still negativity attached it that makes it sell. If it was accepted it would not be as attractive leading to fewer profits. Maybe there should be a higher tax on video games. They're so addicting and there is so much money in the industry.

http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/

They even give sources for their claims.

[cortjezter]

i never said high taxes. just that it should be taxed. even at a state/city's normal sales tax rate, it would be a tremendous new source of income.