Time

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Re: Time

Postby DarkDude » 13 Dec 2010 18:54

omfg.. seriously? you are just clearly trying to be difficult.
I'm trying to be difficult? You're arguing that the past and future do exist in physical space while in the same post arguing that it doesn't.
this will be my last post to try and illustrate my arguments against your ideas
You're giving up? Thank you.
things that barely require a third grade education to grasp.
I was going to make a witty comeback, but I prefer not to stoop to your level and be insulting.
nobody else seems to have problem understanding what i'm getting at
That's because you and everyone else are comfortable with your idea/belief of time, and you don't want to step out of your mind and actually think about something that somebody else thought of that contradicts what you believe. Being popular isn't right.
simply pleading ignorance and nitpicking semantics is not a valid ground to stand on, unless you're a tea partier i suppose.
Nitpicking semantics? Excuse me, but this is a message board. Semantics are all I have to go off of.
what i said was that any single atom.. it exists at any point in time you decide to look at. 100 earth years ago? yep.. still there. 100 earth years from now? yep... will still be there. time as a concept exists in that space.. but of course it's relative. from the present, it would appear to be the past to us, but us looking at its state as it was 100 years ago would be relative to ITS present. so there you have it. proof there is more than the present.
Look, bud. You're the one not understanding me. I can't look at the earth 100 "earth years" ago. I can't look at the earth 100 "earth years" from now. How do you know it will still be there? You can't know. You don't even know what's going to happen a second from now and yet you're predicting a 100 years from now? Sure, it's a safe bet, but it's not a fact if it hasn't happened. Time is a concept that exists in our minds, not in any space.
You didn't prove anything, by the way, except that you are not willing to accept anyone's ideas but your own. You could say the same about me, but I question things. You are just believing a common belief that has existed since you were born. The same reason people believed the earth was flat.
and yes, you can very easily see evidence of the past. in fact many sciences focus entirely on evidence from the past. decaying radioactive isotopes (and carbon-14 dating), tree rings, layers of geologic sediment, species evolution, etc. also, sciences exist dealing in the future. some things are mere probability, other things are virtually guaranteed to happen based on observations in the present (and often including those gathered from the past).
So you proved ... what? That the past did happen? I'm not going to argue about whether there's evidence that the past happened nor am I going to argue about using science to predict a likely future, but not a certainty because until it happens it's not a fact.
also, travelling through space is also travelling through time. you cannot move at all without time, since travelling by definition is a measurement of distance covered in some amount of time. if you don't plug in a value of time in the equation (a zero), you get zero distance travelled.
In order to travel though time, there would have to be time to travel through. When you start moving, it's the present. When you're done moving, it's the present. It's still the same time, the present. What you're talking about is time, as a measurement, not time, as in the existence of the past and future coexisting with the present. Which, if you'd actually been reading my posts, you would be well aware that I'm well aware that there are two different things called time. Time as a measurement is real. Time as in something real that you can do anything with is not real. You can't travel through it and you can't manipulate it. Two traits of things that don't exist.
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Re: Time

Postby cortjezter » 13 Dec 2010 21:15

DarkDude wrote:stuff

so says you. you haven't proven anything, either, pal. just your refusal to accept facts as presented, and instead offer unqualified rhetoric.

matter exists physically. time exists conceptually because of it. time as we understand it comes in three flavours: past, present, and future. the simple fact we have names for them means they each exist equally...as concepts. how is that for rhetoric?

btw.. that really is my last post for awhile. double posting ends here. anyone want to contribute?
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Re: Time

Postby tendoboy1984 » 14 Dec 2010 01:31

@DarkDude

If the past doesn't exist, then that means memories don't exist either. EXAMPLE: Remember that road trip you took with your parents? It never happened cause you basically think the past (and therefore memories) is nonexistant. I remember what I did yesterday, but I guess since the past is nonexistant, then that means I'm remembering nothing.

My point: If the past doesn't exist, then memories and history wouldn't exist either. The Bill of Rights was never written, the Iraqi war never happened, the date you went on never happened... See my point? The past DOES exist, since we have a thing called MEMORY. It's what our brain does to remind us of past events.

As for the future... That's basically things that haven't happened yet. But you say the future is also nonexistant, so that means we have nothing to look forward to since nothing will happen.
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Re: Time

Postby LordTyroxx » 14 Dec 2010 10:32

This "discussion" is getting particularly annoying.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31QPb%2BOXdpL.jpg

Imagine what you see in this toy as the present. Just because we have no means of seeing the past and the future with technology doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Like the toy, I also believe that time is looped. There was no beginning and there will be no end.

All we are doing is presenting concepts. It's not like anyone is proving anything. If you can't be open minded in a topic about concepts, then why bother to begin with?
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Re: Time

Postby DarkDude » 14 Dec 2010 22:22

tendoboy1984 wrote:@DarkDude

If the past doesn't exist, then that means memories don't exist either. EXAMPLE: Remember that road trip you took with your parents? It never happened cause you basically think the past (and therefore memories) is nonexistant. I remember what I did yesterday, but I guess since the past is nonexistant, then that means I'm remembering nothing.

My point: If the past doesn't exist, then memories and history wouldn't exist either. The Bill of Rights was never written, the Iraqi war never happened, the date you went on never happened... See my point? The past DOES exist, since we have a thing called MEMORY. It's what our brain does to remind us of past events.

As for the future... That's basically things that haven't happened yet. But you say the future is also nonexistant, so that means we have nothing to look forward to since nothing will happen.

I feel as though you do not understand my point of view on the matter. The past did happen and in our way of thinking the past is real. What I'm saying is that nowhere in this universe or in any other universe is our past. The past is gone. Traces of the past do remain, such as fossils and memories, but they exist in the present. The future is the same as the past, except without traces.

LordTyroxx wrote:This "discussion" is getting particularly annoying.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31QPb%2BOXdpL.jpg

Imagine what you see in this toy as the present. Just because we have no means of seeing the past and the future with technology doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Like the toy, I also believe that time is looped. There was no beginning and there will be no end.

All we are doing is presenting concepts. It's not like anyone is proving anything. If you can't be open minded in a topic about concepts, then why bother to begin with?

I understand your perspective and if that's what you believe then that is fine with me. I do not believe that is the case, however, as a loop would imply that eventually it will return to the beginning. I believe in a continuation of cycles. Everything in nature is made up of cycles, but no two cycles are ever the same, just as no two things in nature are exactly the same.

Just to clarify, I'm not trying to convince anyone here. I'm just telling you my opinion of what time is. It's always up to you to make up your own mind on anything.

cortjezter wrote:
DarkDude wrote:stuff

so says you. you haven't proven anything, either, pal. just your refusal to accept facts as presented, and instead offer unqualified rhetoric.

My apologies. I see now you were just explaining to me your point of view on the matter. I took what you said as you trying to prove why my theory was wrong.
Last edited by DarkDude on 21 Dec 2010 02:20, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Time

Postby LordTyroxx » 16 Dec 2010 00:54

DarkDude wrote:I understand your perspective and if that's what you believe then that is fine with me. I do not believe that is the case, however, as a loop would imply that eventually it will return to the beginning.


Beginning? :P Not that I believe this, but an infinite time circle would be pretty epic. No beginning, no end. Always has, always will be. There's no way to tell who's right on how time could actually work, but coming up with how it does is cool. I will keep an open mind on stuff i have no ground on because there's a HUGE chance the answer is incomprehensible to us. Maybe just because we can't see time. If I lived in a 2 dimensional world, how would you explain 3 dimensions to me? Depth. How would you explain 4 dimensions to everyone living in a 3 dimensional world? Time.
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