Super Smash Bros. U - The Long Wait Thread

[Berrix]

Sakurai himself said they were probably lessening characters/not adding many more in quantity, and this was after Namco came on board.

Thing was that comment of "narrowing" the roster can be taken either direction. Be it lessening the existing roster from Brawl downward. Which pretty much promises the cut you've mentioned earlier, we just don't know how far (he may go back down to a "solid" 25 character roster for what we may know). Or, taking a more silver-lining approach and assume his "narrowing" meant in choices he would be adding to the playable roster all together. This may mean we're led with maybe a smaller amount of cuts (I know there was data for Mewtwo and Plusle/Minun, but was it confirmed playable?) and just as small of additions. We can't take that comment for exactly what it is since there was no real confirmation of what he meant.

"It isn't a matter of ‘If the next game has 50 characters, that'll be enough… There is a certain charm to games that have huge casts of playable characters, but they tend to have issues with game balance and it becomes very difficult to fine-tune each character and have them all feel distinctive."

Yeah, it does -SOUND- like he may be taking down the roster. Since that's usually the doom & gloom that comes from this type of comment. But from this he also acknowledges some of it's charm it the large array of characters and knows the balancing issues that comes with it. So he may just be adding about 5 if anything, maybe more if he's replacing anyone, just so it's not a giant balance issue later on, who really knows but Sakurai how much of the dev time it took just to balance Melee, let alone Brawl.

[J0RdAnN]

I think Cynthia is the only (human)character to appear in more than 2 Pokemon titles.

Also calling Brawl a Balanced game is a joke. Just look at Metaknight.

[HammerGalladeBro]

Also; I'm almost done with a few more and I figured to post a preview of one of their icons, can you guess what it is?

Oh, I know the answer, I know the answer. XD
You're either specifically suggesting her:

Spoiler:

or perhaps any other character from:

Spoiler:

Man, such cool characters from an underrrated gem.

[YoshiRider123]

I think Cynthia is the only (human)character to appear in more than 2 Pokemon titles..

If we're just counting the main games, that's hardly true.

Oak
Red
Every Kanto Gym Leader except Janine
Lance
Jasmine
Steven
Caitlin

These are other characters who've also made appearances in at least three different games.

[smashbros4svp]

I think Cynthia is the only (human)character to appear in more than 2 Pokemon titles.

Also calling Brawl a Balanced game is a joke. Just look at Metaknight.

Metaknight isn`t that broken,the only thing that made him such an hassle was his infinite chain grab,which could have been fixed through patches easily.

Outside of that he`s fine.

[led-naruto]

I think Cynthia is the only (human)character to appear in more than 2 Pokemon titles.

Also calling Brawl a Balanced game is a joke. Just look at Metaknight.

Metaknight isn`t that broken,the only thing that made him such an hassle was his infinite chain grab,which could have been fixed through patches easily.

Outside of that he`s fine.

We can say the same for Melee being balanced... Anyway.

You can make anything from Sakurai's words, so for now everything's still vague. What is for sure is that characters with evolving series might be replaced like Fire Emblem, Pokémon, the incarnations of the Zelda series. Characters like Falco have more chances to stay than the series I just mentioned.

[Berrix]

You can make anything from Sakurai's words, so for now everything's still vague. What is for sure is that characters with evolving series might be replaced like Fire Emblem, Pokémon, the incarnations of the Zelda series. Characters like Falco have more chances to stay than the series I just mentioned.

This pretty much sums it up since he also mentioned he'll be changing things as they go along. We all don't know what the means till he shows us in some way (like the Dojo for Brawl). Though I understand the ever-evolving series certain games are, hopefully this means they replace Marth as I was never a great fan of that guy. But we'll see n that, till then we'll just enjoy our dream characters being shared among each other.

[HammerGalladeBro]

Another song I'd like to listen on the future Ice Climber stage, although it doesn't have an official title, I'd like if they call it simply "Ice Hockey".

And yeah, It's inevitable that series like Pokémon and Fire Emblem will see characters from new entries, so we can expect to see a playable Pokémon from GenV and the main character from Fire Emblem: Awakening replacing Lucario and Ike respectively.

[YoshiRider123]

I'm personally expecting Marth, Roy, Ike, and Krom to be playable.

I don't really agree that the series is one of those that is relegated to that imaginary rule that the one who isn't Marth becomes replaced by the new guy in the next game and that's it for roster count, as it primarily just stems from the fact that Roy wasn't in Brawl for a reason that we just kind of inconclusively accepted as being involved with Ike's inclusion.

[MoldyClay]

Lots of people make up rules based on one to two games.

Like YoshiRider said, we really don't know that Ike will be gone.

As for Sakurai's quote, I take it as him saying they could still have a huge cast, but we won't definitely be seeing all of Brawl's roster returning. Seems almost obvious anyway. Melee lost 4 characters (3 clones and Mewtwo; 5 characters if you count Young Link, but he basically just turned into Toon Link), and while that doesn't mean we're *destined* to lose characters, I still think we'll lose a handful. D:.

I think Cynthia is the only (human)character to appear in more than 2 Pokemon titles..

If we're just counting the main games, that's hardly true.

Oak
Red
Every Kanto Gym Leader except Janine
Lance
Jasmine
Steven
Caitlin

These are other characters who've also made appearances in at least three different games.

This is true, although Cynthia appears in the most, I think... appearing in 4 (or a total of 9 versions, I believe).

[smashbros4svp]

I'm personally expecting Marth, Roy, Ike, and Krom to be playable.

I don't really agree that the series is one of those that is relegated to that imaginary rule that the one who isn't Marth becomes replaced by the new guy in the next game and that's it for roster count, as it primarily just stems from the fact that Roy wasn't in Brawl for a reason that we just kind of inconclusively accepted as being involved with Ike's inclusion.

From what i heard,Marth is well liked as a playable character so i dont think he will be ditched just because of the new Fire Emblem.In fact,remplacing characters just for the sake of remplacing wont win anyone over.

Instead,i think the focus should be on characters from new creations and obscure characters from the old times having their triomphant return in a Smash Bros game.The only characters that should be removed are the duplicates.I never felt like we need two Links,3 Foxes,2 Ness`,2 Captain Falcon,ect...Through i expect to see Luigi since Mario is the biggest franchise at Nintendo.

[YoshiRider123]

I'm personally expecting Marth, Roy, Ike, and Krom to be playable.

I don't really agree that the series is one of those that is relegated to that imaginary rule that the one who isn't Marth becomes replaced by the new guy in the next game and that's it for roster count, as it primarily just stems from the fact that Roy wasn't in Brawl for a reason that we just kind of inconclusively accepted as being involved with Ike's inclusion.

From what i heard,Marth is well liked as a playable character so i dont think he will be ditched just because of the new Fire Emblem.In fact,remplacing characters just for the sake of remplacing wont win anyone over.

Instead,i think the focus should be on characters from new creations and obscure characters from the old times having their triomphant return in a Smash Bros game.The only characters that should be removed are the duplicates.I never felt like we need two Links,3 Foxes,2 Ness`,2 Captain Falcon,ect...Through i expect to see Luigi since Mario is the biggest franchise at Nintendo.

Right. I see there to be no way that Marth will not be playable. For one, he is the most iconic character in his respective series and is the protagonist in more games than anyone else like Roy or Ike. Marth is the face of Fire Emblem. His sword, Falchion, represents the series in Super Smash Bros.

In Awakening (the newest game), Marth's very identity is pretty important to the story of the game, to the point where the actual plot revolves around the mystery of a masked character who claims to be him. Heck, Awakening even lets you have three different playable Marth characters in the same game due to DLC and SpotPass. If anything, Awakening just indicates that Marth's relevance is still prominent.

After all of this, that simple whiteboard image from a while back showing Marth, and Sakurai's own actual enthusiasm towards the series (Sakurai even hosted the Iwata Asks interview for Shadow Dragon), Marth not being playable would be awkward and nonsensical.

Speaking of that interview, Sakurai did express his interest in adjusting Marth's appearance in Brawl to reflect his Shadow Dragon appearance, but it didn't happen because...he didn't know about Shadow Dragon until it was too late going back. On top of Marth returning in the next game, I think that there's a very good chance that his appearance will differ notably from his Melee and Brawl incarnations. I'm just going to guess that he could look something like this or this.

[CrispyGoomba]

Can someone remind me again why Jiggypuff is still around? I really hope that they cut her loose.

[Berrix]

Lots of people make up rules based on one to two games.

Like YoshiRider said, we really don't know that Ike will be gone.

As for Sakurai's quote, I take it as him saying they could still have a huge cast, but we won't definitely be seeing all of Brawl's roster returning. Seems almost obvious anyway. Melee lost 4 characters (3 clones and Mewtwo; 5 characters if you count Young Link, but he basically just turned into Toon Link), and while that doesn't mean we're *destined* to lose characters, I still think we'll lose a handful. D:.

I remember when 64-to-Melee "rules" were made up on how they'd double the roster cause Melee pretty much did. I remember a very big and detailed reasoning as to why this would be the case, and clearly proven wrong.

As for the quote, I wasn't arguing that fact, though it would suck if we were to get only a few characters added. I for one would understand. But you have to admit, everyone here and anywhere watched that Brawl trailer with vigil over a certain banner.

"Newcomer: <Name>"

We all did this, and guilty of it. We all know this is what brings in new players and some to come back. Though understandable if they add few this time around, it's pretty hard to get the same feedback with a "New Feature: <Feature>" trailer, that usually needed a breakdown of sorts.

Though I got to say, if they do go the route and, for the sake of the conversation, stick with the roster as-is and added no one. I'd expect huge emphasis on features, much more in depth adventure mode, fluid online featuring and trophies to collect out the friggin' wazoo. Also, more stage interaction, and less "platformy" levels like in Brawl.

[led-naruto]

I never mentioned Marth would be out. He's the original Fire Emblem character after all.

What I was referring to is that there can be changes in ongoing series that tend to change characters often.
For example, the adult Link is in his Twilight Princess costume, and the young Link in the Toon version.
Roy was in Melee firstly to promote his game, then he was replaced by Ike, who appeared in the latest ones. Since Awakening is coming to the west I can see getting Ike out of this for any newcomer of the new Fire Emblem, probably Krom.

And the Pokémon series, well you already know the Lucario/Mewtwo relation, I can see they putting a new popular pokémon and probably putting any of the new Trainers. It's no rule, it's speculation. I can be totally wrong and Sakurai would go crazy and put all the characters from the past 3 games and add a ton new ones.

[smashbros4svp]

I never mentioned Marth would be out. He's the original Fire Emblem character after all.

What I was referring to is that there can be changes in ongoing series that tend to change characters often.
For example, the adult Link is in his Twilight Princess costume, and the young Link in the Toon version.
Roy was in Melee firstly to promote his game, then he was replaced by Ike, who appeared in the latest ones. Since Awakening is coming to the west I can see getting Ike out of this for any newcomer of the new Fire Emblem, probably Krom.

And the Pokémon series, well you already know the Lucario/Mewtwo relation, I can see they putting a new popular pokémon and probably putting any of the new Trainers. It's no rule, it's speculation. I can be totally wrong and Sakurai would go crazy and put all the characters from the past 3 games and add a ton new ones.

I heard that Mewtwo was planned for Brawl but he didn`t made it because of time constraints.Also,since Sakurai talked about a change in direction,that doesn`t mean he`ll do the roster like previous games.

For exemple,for the 20th anniversairy of Zelda,they were 2 games that were released;the remake of Ocarina of Time and Skyward Sword.For Mario,NSMB,the Galaxy series and 3d Land were released.For Star Fox,the only game released after the DS one was a remake of Star Fox 64.After the GBA days,Earthbounds dissapeared,F-zero didn`t had a game for a while,and between Brawl and the new one for 3ds and Wii U Pokemon had the Black and White series were Lucario is still there and relevant.Also,Ike had an appearance on the Wii and he`s the second most recurring character behind Marth,through i could be wrong since i only heard of this.

What i`m saying is that the change for the characters could go in many different ways so we shouldn`t assume anything for granted.Maybe Link will appear in his Ocarina of Time appearance.Maybe Mario will be based on the NSMB games instead of Galaxy.Maybe Lucario will be back alongside Mewtwo.Maybe Toon Zelda and Dixie Kong will appear since they were planned for Brawl,ect...

[led-naruto]

I never mentioned Marth would be out. He's the original Fire Emblem character after all.

What I was referring to is that there can be changes in ongoing series that tend to change characters often.
For example, the adult Link is in his Twilight Princess costume, and the young Link in the Toon version.
Roy was in Melee firstly to promote his game, then he was replaced by Ike, who appeared in the latest ones. Since Awakening is coming to the west I can see getting Ike out of this for any newcomer of the new Fire Emblem, probably Krom.

And the Pokémon series, well you already know the Lucario/Mewtwo relation, I can see they putting a new popular pokémon and probably putting any of the new Trainers. It's no rule, it's speculation. I can be totally wrong and Sakurai would go crazy and put all the characters from the past 3 games and add a ton new ones.

I heard that Mewtwo was planned for Brawl but he didn`t made it because of time constraints.Also,since Sakurai talked about a change in direction,that doesn`t mean he`ll do the roster like previous games.

For exemple,for the 20th anniversairy of Zelda,they were 2 games that were released;the remake of Ocarina of Time and Skyward Sword.For Mario,NSMB,the Galaxy series and 3d Land were released.For Star Fox,the only game released after the DS one was a remake of Star Fox 64.After the GBA days,Earthbounds dissapeared,F-zero didn`t had a game for a while,and between Brawl and the new one for 3ds and Wii U Pokemon had the Black and White series were Lucario is still there and relevant.Also,Ike had an appearance on the Wii and he`s the second most recurring character behind Marth,through i could be wrong since i only heard of this.

What i`m saying is that the change for the characters could go in many different ways so we shouldn`t assume anything for granted.Maybe Link will appear in his Ocarina of Time appearance.Maybe Mario will be based on the NSMB games instead of Galaxy.Maybe Lucario will be back alongside Mewtwo.Maybe Toon Zelda and Dixie Kong will appear since they were planned for Brawl,ect...

That doesn't mean he'll change the roster either. You can get different meanings from "a change of direction", for me it's more about gameplay than... characters. My speculation comes from the fact that some of the series are evolving, and it's important to show current characters to attract more players to those series.

The two big examples are Zelda and Pokémon, who are constantly growing up and implementing new characters. And Smash Bros. takes the recent games of the series to promote them. I can give you two examples from this: Lucas and Roy.
Lucario is not that relevant anymore in my opinion. New characters like Victini, Zoroark, Keldeo hit the big screen in Japan, and they're popular there.
You're wrong on the Ike part, he was popular but not most recurring, and you're also omitting the new Fire Emblem, where most of the important characters of the franchise appear as DLC.
And like I said, it's speculation, I'm not even sure about it.



So with Tecmo as a close company to Nintendo, does anyone think Ryu Hayabusa will appear in the next Smash?

[smashbros4svp]

I never mentioned Marth would be out. He's the original Fire Emblem character after all.

What I was referring to is that there can be changes in ongoing series that tend to change characters often.
For example, the adult Link is in his Twilight Princess costume, and the young Link in the Toon version.
Roy was in Melee firstly to promote his game, then he was replaced by Ike, who appeared in the latest ones. Since Awakening is coming to the west I can see getting Ike out of this for any newcomer of the new Fire Emblem, probably Krom.

And the Pokémon series, well you already know the Lucario/Mewtwo relation, I can see they putting a new popular pokémon and probably putting any of the new Trainers. It's no rule, it's speculation. I can be totally wrong and Sakurai would go crazy and put all the characters from the past 3 games and add a ton new ones.

I heard that Mewtwo was planned for Brawl but he didn`t made it because of time constraints.Also,since Sakurai talked about a change in direction,that doesn`t mean he`ll do the roster like previous games.

For exemple,for the 20th anniversairy of Zelda,they were 2 games that were released;the remake of Ocarina of Time and Skyward Sword.For Mario,NSMB,the Galaxy series and 3d Land were released.For Star Fox,the only game released after the DS one was a remake of Star Fox 64.After the GBA days,Earthbounds dissapeared,F-zero didn`t had a game for a while,and between Brawl and the new one for 3ds and Wii U Pokemon had the Black and White series were Lucario is still there and relevant.Also,Ike had an appearance on the Wii and he`s the second most recurring character behind Marth,through i could be wrong since i only heard of this.

What i`m saying is that the change for the characters could go in many different ways so we shouldn`t assume anything for granted.Maybe Link will appear in his Ocarina of Time appearance.Maybe Mario will be based on the NSMB games instead of Galaxy.Maybe Lucario will be back alongside Mewtwo.Maybe Toon Zelda and Dixie Kong will appear since they were planned for Brawl,ect...

That doesn't mean he'll change the roster either. You can get different meanings from "a change of direction", for me it's more about gameplay than... characters. My speculation comes from the fact that some of the series are evolving, and it's important to show current characters to attract more players to those series.

The two big examples are Zelda and Pokémon, who are constantly growing up and implementing new characters. And Smash Bros. takes the recent games of the series to promote them. I can give you two examples from this: Lucas and Roy.
Lucario is not that relevant anymore in my opinion. New characters like Victini, Zoroark, Keldeo hit the big screen in Japan, and they're popular there.
You're wrong on the Ike part, he was popular but not most recurring, and you're also omitting the new Fire Emblem, where most of the important characters of the franchise appear as DLC.
And like I said, it's speculation, I'm not even sure about it.



So with Tecmo as a close company to Nintendo, does anyone think Ryu Hayabusa will appear in the next Smash?

I assumed the change of directions is concerning the characters because Sakurai was talking about characters and rosters in general when he said it.Characters are usually ones of the most important aspect in fighting games so i`m sure it will concern the roster in some ways.

Sure,promoting recent Zelda and Pokemon games is good,but which ones They were several Zelda games released between Brawl and the new one,Pokemon had several games released too,Mario had a whole bunch of them,the opposite is true for other franchises as well.For the few characters that might have been added because of their current games,usually roster picks are more complex than just mashing what`s cool together and calling it a day.If the roster was decided like that,Earthbounds and F-zero characters would have been thrown out of the roster a long time ago,same with others from various games and franchises.

If you think Lucario isn`t relevant,then he can`t be worse than Pikachu or Jigglypuff,right Lucario is still appearing in Pokemon games unlike those two.

I said about Ike being the most reccuring character BEHIND Marth,not as the most reccuring character overall.And DLC,seriously

Oh and Ryu Hayabusa Unfortunatly i`m still an unfortunate victim of the first Ninja Gaiden on the NES and every time i watch people falling in that game i feel the pain and torture that they feel by playing this product of hell.The worse culprit was the world 6-2,it felt like torture with a laughting satan`s face looking at me.So i`d hate to see a reminder of it in the new Smash Bros,please.

[YoshiRider123]

Marth isn't even the most recurring character in the Fire Emblem series.

[led-naruto]

I assumed the change of directions is concerning the characters because Sakurai was talking about characters and rosters in general when he said it.Characters are usually ones of the most important aspect in fighting games so i`m sure it will concern the roster in some ways.

Sure,promoting recent Zelda and Pokemon games is good,but which ones They were several Zelda games released between Brawl and the new one,Pokemon had several games released too,Mario had a whole bunch of them,the opposite is true for other franchises as well.For the few characters that might have been added because of their current games,usually roster picks are more complex than just mashing what`s cool together and calling it a day.If the roster was decided like that,Earthbounds and F-zero characters would have been thrown out of the roster a long time ago,same with others from various games and franchises.

If you think Lucario isn`t relevant,then he can`t be worse than Pikachu or Jigglypuff,right Lucario is still appearing in Pokemon games unlike those two.

I said about Ike being the most reccuring character BEHIND Marth,not as the most reccuring character overall.And DLC,seriously

Oh and Ryu Hayabusa Unfortunatly i`m still an unfortunate victim of the first Ninja Gaiden on the NES and every time i watch people falling in that game i feel the pain and torture that they feel by playing this product of hell.The worse culprit was the world 6-2,it felt like torture with a laughting satan`s face looking at me.So i`d hate to see a reminder of it in the new Smash Bros,please.

Fine, here are my counter-arguments:
Fighters aren't really the most important aspect, the gameplay is. You play Mortal Kombat because of the fatalities, you play Street Fighter because of the big combos you can do, you play Soul Calibur because it centers around blades. The main core of Smash isn't the characters (as contrary to popular belief), it's to beat out the opponent and launch it away, that's what makes it fun.

Which ones? Skyward Sword, and probably any new Zelda that may be announced in these future years. Ocarina of Time 3D is a remake, it doesn't count because it's not new. Pokemon? The Black and White series obviously, and I'm counting them both because they're like the "middle" version of the generation (like Emerald and Crystal).
...Seriously? Mario? Look, the Mario series have this main character that will be the same no matter what: Mario, and he hasn't changed at all after all these years.
I was stating the popularity for evolving series, not stagnant ones. I didn't say at all about other franchises like F-Zero whose characters don't change. The Mother games are just 3, and very popular in Japan. Don't put them in the same category as the others.

No, Lucario isn't relevant, he was relevant in his generation but now he can stay there because he's not representing the current one. And you're totally wrong with Pikachu, he still appears in games, in the anime, in the movies, in any other media, and he's the main mascot of Pokémon, how can he not be relevant?. Jigglypuff has appeared since the first Smash Bros., it seems like a staple of the series now to appear in every game as unlockable or not.

Okay so, where do you get the fact that Ike is one of the most recurring characters? I can believe you he has been in major roles, but recurring!? He just appeared in two games, and in the DLC of Awakening! He's not recurring, many other characters from Fire Emblem have appeared more than once in the series. And yes, seriously DLC, unless you haven't been informed every character with a major role in the Fire Emblem franchise appear in as downloadable in the new Fire Emblem.



Well that's your opinion. He has also appeared in the Dear or Alive franchise and Samus and Ridley make a cameo appearance in the 3DS game, there's a connection.

[Berrix]

No, Lucario isn't relevant, he was relevant in his generation but now he can stay there because he's not representing the current one. And you're totally wrong with Pikachu, he still appears in games, in the anime, in the movies, in any other media, and he's the main mascot of Pokémon, how can he not be relevant?. Jigglypuff has appeared since the first Smash Bros., it seems like a staple of the series now to appear in every game as unlockable or not.

Okay so, where do you get the fact that Ike is one of the most recurring characters? I can believe you he has been in major roles, but recurring!? He just appeared in two games, and in the DLC of Awakening! He's not recurring, many other characters from Fire Emblem have appeared more than once in the series. And yes, seriously DLC, unless you haven't been informed every character with a major role in the Fire Emblem franchise appear in as downloadable in the new Fire Emblem.

To add to this; Lucario, at the time of the announcement (within the years time) had a movie focusing around him, and another set in the anime series thereafter, since then he's faded into the sea of Pokemon, pretty much what happens to all who ain't Pikachu or Jigglypuff, as they reoccur constantly. My main confusion for some time was why Meowth was kind of sidelined, as those were the top three voted "biggest favorite" in the Pokemon franchise ages and ages ago in Japan. Probably why they're still focused in the anime and appear constantly in games. Though I cannot guess the newer Pokemon would be a prime choice to add to the roster -IF- Nintendo does choose to add/replace one as I have not played too much of B&W, though my Zoroark was made only cause he/she was the first Pokemon shown from the generation. That's anyone's guess.

Reoccurring appearances don't mean jack when you come down to it, that I believe falls in the same category as to why we don't get Cloud, Sephiroth and the like because they cameo in a spin-off game based on a collection of older games. It would be like using Link and Samus references from Mario RPG as their own true game, which we all know it isn't. DLC feels a lot like that to me. Though I am not too much an FE fan (picked up my fandom when it came stateside, I'm a newb to the series), I can still say my peace about Marth, regardless if he's in or not.

Marth isn't even the most recurring character in the Fire Emblem series.

I think dragons are. Damnit Nintendo! Where are mah dragons!

Now I was going to post this yesterday but had no time, but;

Oh, I know the answer, I know the answer. XD
You're either specifically suggesting her:

Spoiler:

or perhaps any other character from:

Spoiler:

Man, such cool characters from an underrrated gem.

That was quick, and yes it is an underrated gem of DS games. Loved the game.



Sorbet: From the time I made the character, I wanted one memorable from people who played the series, as the main character (you) didn't stand out well enough to be added and liked. Besides, "Hero" or "Heroine" was way too vague of a title to give anyone. Instead of making all her skills from her spellbook, I wanted Sorbet to represent the series as a whole, not just herself. So I imagined her with skills from everyone, much like Lucas and Ness from Mother fame. But still have her iconic attacks and sparkle.

[smashbros4svp]

I assumed the change of directions is concerning the characters because Sakurai was talking about characters and rosters in general when he said it.Characters are usually ones of the most important aspect in fighting games so i`m sure it will concern the roster in some ways.

Sure,promoting recent Zelda and Pokemon games is good,but which ones They were several Zelda games released between Brawl and the new one,Pokemon had several games released too,Mario had a whole bunch of them,the opposite is true for other franchises as well.For the few characters that might have been added because of their current games,usually roster picks are more complex than just mashing what`s cool together and calling it a day.If the roster was decided like that,Earthbounds and F-zero characters would have been thrown out of the roster a long time ago,same with others from various games and franchises.

If you think Lucario isn`t relevant,then he can`t be worse than Pikachu or Jigglypuff,right Lucario is still appearing in Pokemon games unlike those two.

I said about Ike being the most reccuring character BEHIND Marth,not as the most reccuring character overall.And DLC,seriously

Oh and Ryu Hayabusa Unfortunatly i`m still an unfortunate victim of the first Ninja Gaiden on the NES and every time i watch people falling in that game i feel the pain and torture that they feel by playing this product of hell.The worse culprit was the world 6-2,it felt like torture with a laughting satan`s face looking at me.So i`d hate to see a reminder of it in the new Smash Bros,please.

Fine, here are my counter-arguments:
Fighters aren't really the most important aspect, the gameplay is. You play Mortal Kombat because of the fatalities, you play Street Fighter because of the big combos you can do, you play Soul Calibur because it centers around blades. The main core of Smash isn't the characters (as contrary to popular belief), it's to beat out the opponent and launch it away, that's what makes it fun.

Which ones? Skyward Sword, and probably any new Zelda that may be announced in these future years. Ocarina of Time 3D is a remake, it doesn't count because it's not new. Pokemon? The Black and White series obviously, and I'm counting them both because they're like the "middle" version of the generation (like Emerald and Crystal).
...Seriously? Mario? Look, the Mario series have this main character that will be the same no matter what: Mario, and he hasn't changed at all after all these years.
I was stating the popularity for evolving series, not stagnant ones. I didn't say at all about other franchises like F-Zero whose characters don't change. The Mother games are just 3, and very popular in Japan. Don't put them in the same category as the others.

No, Lucario isn't relevant, he was relevant in his generation but now he can stay there because he's not representing the current one. And you're totally wrong with Pikachu, he still appears in games, in the anime, in the movies, in any other media, and he's the main mascot of Pokémon, how can he not be relevant?. Jigglypuff has appeared since the first Smash Bros., it seems like a staple of the series now to appear in every game as unlockable or not.

Okay so, where do you get the fact that Ike is one of the most recurring characters? I can believe you he has been in major roles, but recurring!? He just appeared in two games, and in the DLC of Awakening! He's not recurring, many other characters from Fire Emblem have appeared more than once in the series. And yes, seriously DLC, unless you haven't been informed every character with a major role in the Fire Emblem franchise appear in as downloadable in the new Fire Emblem.



Well that's your opinion. He has also appeared in the Dear or Alive franchise and Samus and Ridley make a cameo appearance in the 3DS game, there's a connection.

I said ones of the most important,not the most important.Sure gameplay is the priority but in crossovers like these characters is a big part of why we play them in the first place.

Zelda had the DS games being released as well,and the remake still counts because it`s was still a big game for the 3ds despite being a remake.So yes it can goes in different ways.Hell,they could even go back as far as using the classic Link from the NES days and that could still work.

Pikachu is still appearing in games I through he was only appearing in the anime and stuffs related to it...ah well,but if that`s the case you still can`t call Lucario irrelevant because he`s still appearing in games and i`m sure he still has people that likes him in Japan and stuff.Dont bring back the Mewtwo argument please,since he was planned for Brawl but was cut due to time restraint.Files of him in the disc still exists,same for other characters that may be appearing in the next game.

Several Fire Emblem characters appeared through several games,okay thanks for stating such,through Ike is the most recent character who got multiples appearance even through he got two excluding the DLC.So in my opinion he still has a chance of being in the next game because of his staying power and unlike Roy who was created as a clone,Ike is it`s own character so that`s a big thing.

As for Ryu,Tecmo and Nintendo are good friends but i think he has a chance if Team Ninja beg Sakurai to add him.If not i`m not sure.

[led-naruto]

I assumed the change of directions is concerning the characters because Sakurai was talking about characters and rosters in general when he said it.Characters are usually ones of the most important aspect in fighting games so i`m sure it will concern the roster in some ways.

Sure,promoting recent Zelda and Pokemon games is good,but which ones They were several Zelda games released between Brawl and the new one,Pokemon had several games released too,Mario had a whole bunch of them,the opposite is true for other franchises as well.For the few characters that might have been added because of their current games,usually roster picks are more complex than just mashing what`s cool together and calling it a day.If the roster was decided like that,Earthbounds and F-zero characters would have been thrown out of the roster a long time ago,same with others from various games and franchises.

If you think Lucario isn`t relevant,then he can`t be worse than Pikachu or Jigglypuff,right Lucario is still appearing in Pokemon games unlike those two.

I said about Ike being the most reccuring character BEHIND Marth,not as the most reccuring character overall.And DLC,seriously

Oh and Ryu Hayabusa Unfortunatly i`m still an unfortunate victim of the first Ninja Gaiden on the NES and every time i watch people falling in that game i feel the pain and torture that they feel by playing this product of hell.The worse culprit was the world 6-2,it felt like torture with a laughting satan`s face looking at me.So i`d hate to see a reminder of it in the new Smash Bros,please.

Fine, here are my counter-arguments:
Fighters aren't really the most important aspect, the gameplay is. You play Mortal Kombat because of the fatalities, you play Street Fighter because of the big combos you can do, you play Soul Calibur because it centers around blades. The main core of Smash isn't the characters (as contrary to popular belief), it's to beat out the opponent and launch it away, that's what makes it fun.

Which ones? Skyward Sword, and probably any new Zelda that may be announced in these future years. Ocarina of Time 3D is a remake, it doesn't count because it's not new. Pokemon? The Black and White series obviously, and I'm counting them both because they're like the "middle" version of the generation (like Emerald and Crystal).
...Seriously? Mario? Look, the Mario series have this main character that will be the same no matter what: Mario, and he hasn't changed at all after all these years.
I was stating the popularity for evolving series, not stagnant ones. I didn't say at all about other franchises like F-Zero whose characters don't change. The Mother games are just 3, and very popular in Japan. Don't put them in the same category as the others.

No, Lucario isn't relevant, he was relevant in his generation but now he can stay there because he's not representing the current one. And you're totally wrong with Pikachu, he still appears in games, in the anime, in the movies, in any other media, and he's the main mascot of Pokémon, how can he not be relevant?. Jigglypuff has appeared since the first Smash Bros., it seems like a staple of the series now to appear in every game as unlockable or not.

Okay so, where do you get the fact that Ike is one of the most recurring characters? I can believe you he has been in major roles, but recurring!? He just appeared in two games, and in the DLC of Awakening! He's not recurring, many other characters from Fire Emblem have appeared more than once in the series. And yes, seriously DLC, unless you haven't been informed every character with a major role in the Fire Emblem franchise appear in as downloadable in the new Fire Emblem.



Well that's your opinion. He has also appeared in the Dear or Alive franchise and Samus and Ridley make a cameo appearance in the 3DS game, there's a connection.

I said ones of the most important,not the most important.Sure gameplay is the priority but in crossovers like these characters is a big part of why we play them in the first place.

Zelda had the DS games being released as well,and the remake still counts because it`s was still a big game for the 3ds despite being a remake.So yes it can goes in different ways.Hell,they could even go back as far as using the classic Link from the NES days and that could still work.

Pikachu is still appearing in games I through he was only appearing in the anime and stuffs related to it...ah well,but if that`s the case you still can`t call Lucario irrelevant because he`s still appearing in games and i`m sure he still has people that likes him in Japan and stuff.Dont bring back the Mewtwo argument please,since he was planned for Brawl but was cut due to time restraint.Files of him in the disc still exists,same for other characters that may be appearing in the next game.

Several Fire Emblem characters appeared through several games,okay thanks for stating such,through Ike is the most recent character who got multiples appearance even through he got two excluding the DLC.So in my opinion he still has a chance of being in the next game because of his staying power and unlike Roy who was created as a clone,Ike is it`s own character so that`s a big thing.

As for Ryu,Tecmo and Nintendo are good friends but i think he has a chance if Team Ninja beg Sakurai to add him.If not i`m not sure.

The crossover just happened because of an ocurrence of the developers to put the characters in the game. I can see it's important but not as the gameplay.

Aaaand are you aware that Toon Link is the character of the DS games? He was in Brawl, he represents the Young Link, and there hasn't been any other recent incarnations of the Young Link. No, the Ocarina 3D is just a remake, and the original for 64 was featured in Melee (along with Majora), let the new ones have a chance of appearing in the new Smash.

YES HE IS. And like the previous user's comment it's a fact that Lucario has come and gone. In fact, Zorua and Zoroark have some of the major roles as Pokémon in the Black and White generation, while Keldeo along with the Dragons are in the movies recently. They are more relevant than Lucario, period. Why not? What problem do you have with Mewtwo? And about that "planned for Brawl but was cut because of time restraints"? Totall bs on that. It's a theory, and by hacking the game that doesn't tell you what the developers were thinking at that time. They could have passed the codes and models from Melee to Brawl along with any other data and modify it for Lucario, saving the original files in case the new ones could get corrupted or deleted. You can't be sure of that, unless any developer from Brawl could say otherwise.

And you still forget Awakening, thank you. They can replace Ike with any other character from Awakening. He's not recent now.

...Why do they have to beg him? Any developer working on the game can suggest it to Sakurai or he can think about it.

[smashbros4svp]

@led-naruto
Nice,you understand the first part.

As for Link,supposingly that they take his Skyward Sword incarnation,what`s the difference between this incarnation and the OoT incarnation Is there some differences between the two in term of their ways to use their attacks or items In Brawl,Link was based on his Twilight Princess and that changed his boomerang quite a bit,so yeah it did make a bit of a difference in gameplay.I`ll admit i didn`t played Skyward Sword and i have no plan right now,but if Link in that game didn`t had any signifiant changes to the ways he used his trademark items then the change probably wont matter because it`ll simply be some skin change that only a few people will even notice.

Now as for Lucario and Ike,it seems that they are people like you who seems obsessed with the idea that just because franchises got new games with new characters means old characters needs to be thrown out.That`s just stupid since it`s ones of the many ways you can piss people off.

If you want some exemple,take SoulCalibur 5.In previous games of that series,people got used to the cast of character.In SoulCalibur 5,many characters were remplaced and it became ones of the critisms on that game,because they tried to remplace characters with other characters.They were people who complained in Brawl by the absence of Mewtwo as well.Marvel vs Capcom 3 had complaints like this at it`s roster because characters from previous were removed.The worse offender was Street Fighter 3.In the original version of it,everyone was taken out for a new cast and the developers had to bring back Ryu and Ken just to adress that but it still pissed fans off,even with the return of Akuma and Chun-li in future versions.

The point is that people are complaining when you take off characters for others.If it`s something like a bunch of clones like Dr.Mario and Pichu,i didn`t saw anyone complaining over them,they weren`t distinct or interesting to play as so of course they deserved to be thrown out.But now you`re talking about throwing out characters that weren`t clones to begin with,that had something going on with them,just to promote the latest games of their series whose characters most will forget by the time the next games after comes out.They are less uniques,less interesting characters to throw out to make room for newcommers,why not cutting them instead They could easily cut duplicates and some of the joke characters to leave room for newcommers and since Tekken Tag Tournaments 2 has downloadable characters that are first offered as pre-order bonuses,they could easily do the same for third-party characters.

If they`re to remplace characters,they should only remplace characters if the new character make sense.For exemple,removing Zelda for Toon Zelda wouldn`t be such a big deal since it`s still the same character,just in a different-looking style.Sheik is something else through,but she could easily be her own character without the transformation thing.I never played as Zelda anyway.Princess Peach,for exemple,Rosalina could remplace her while offering a Peach alternate so the change could be superficial at best.Same for Metaknight,Galactaknight could remplace him while offering his skin back as an alternate,or Metaknight could simply be kept with Galactaknight as an alternate skin,so since the two characters aren`t that different from each others the change wouldn`t be as impactful as removing Metaknight for,let`s say,Knuckle Joe.

I`ll leave that Brawl data and Pokemons` popularity aside,but removing characters for more recent characters may win people from the more recent games,but it`ll could cause people that are enjoying Smash Bros to leave,and in the larger picture it`s not winning anybody.Brawl didn`t sold tons of copies because of the recent characters and stuffs,but because it was an awesome game with a big cast of reconisable and more obscure characters.

[pokemaster515]

Have you guys discussed what version of Link you all think will be used? I'd guess if a new Zelda game isn't shown a good year before the new Smash Bros is done, I think Sakurai will use the Wii U tech-demo/Upgraded Twilight Princess version. I just have a hard time imagining the use of Skyward Sword Link since Sakurai seems to like realistic characters (ex. Mario's denim overalls with thread lines). Yeah I know Toon Link was in Brawl so its not like it couldn't happen but I still don't think it will.