What, no marijuana debate thread?

[SEGAsbest]

Maybe there should be a higher tax on video games. They're so addicting and there is so much money in the industry.

Uhh, no, there shouldn't. There really isn't any significant evidence to video games being addictive at all.

[karkashan]

Responsibility to the responsible. Your classmates are at fault here. My uncle is an alcoholic and he almost died from it. He broke my grandmother's heart with all his violent actions and that probably contributed to her death shortly after. That is not going to stop my drinking. I'm not angry with alcohol or it being legal, but if my uncle comes close to any people I love or even me and brings trash into their lives or mine he's going to get bruised.

So what's with the high taxing guys? There's still a big problem with alcohol. Make something forbiddingly sexy and it's bound to burst into a volcanic mess only because it was suppressed. While alcohol may be legal there's still negativity attached it that makes it sell. If it was accepted it would not be as attractive leading to fewer profits. Maybe there should be a higher tax on video games. They're so addicting and there is so much money in the industry.

http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/

They even give sources for their claims.

A quick couple notes about the article.

1) It's on a site that's main purpose, from what I can tell, is the belief that humans will discover some sort of magical science-y method that will magically turn people away from harmful drugs. (Paraphrasing) From what I can tell, these people would even be okay with the legalization of METH. Yeah...

No

2) The "sources" either don't have dates, or are all over 13 years old, with many "studies" having been done before my older sister was even born.

Just saying.

[Sigtaro]

Maybe there should be a higher tax on video games. They're so addicting and there is so much money in the industry.

Uhh, no, there shouldn't. There really isn't any significant evidence to video games being addictive at all.

I'll call BS on that one. There doesn't even need to be a link because it's such common knowledge. "Anything" can be addictive as to cause harm to self or others, but make another thread if you want to continue. Now when I use the term, "addiction", I'm really just using the word loosely like most people. Kids playing video games instead of doing homework, the husband who always goes fishing instead of spending time with his wife, the dude that just shuts himself in his room building and painting toy soldiers, etc Nothing extreme, but stuff that is common all around us. Regardless if taxed high the government would really gain a profit.

From what I can tell, these people would even be okay with the legalization of METH. Yeah...

No

I am okay with meth as long as the person takes responsibility, understands the consequences and contributes to society. Carl Sagan smoked pot and he has contributed more to science than all anti-druggers combined. No different than alcohol. You just have to fix the current view of it. Make it look like boring ole nothing rather than attacking it to the point where it gains the outlook of forbidden pleasure. Are you against alcohol?

My source may be old, but so are the same old common knowledge, which gets edited over time. Addiction because people like something and want to do it again always gets confused with addiction where the person only cares about what he/she is addicted to and is willing to hurt others to satisfy a need.

[SEGAsbest]

Maybe there should be a higher tax on video games. They're so addicting and there is so much money in the industry.

Uhh, no, there shouldn't. There really isn't any significant evidence to video games being addictive at all.

I'll call BS on that one. There doesn't even need to be a link because it's such common knowledge. "Anything" can be addictive as to cause harm to self or others, but make another thread if you want to continue. Now when I use the term, "addiction", I'm really just using the word loosely like most people. Kids playing video games instead of doing homework, the husband who always goes fishing instead of spending time with his wife, the dude that just shuts himself in his room building and painting toy soldiers, etc Nothing extreme, but stuff that is common all around us. Regardless if taxed high the government would really gain a profit.

From what I can tell, these people would even be okay with the legalization of METH. Yeah...

No

I am okay with meth as long as the person takes responsibility, understands the consequences and contributes to society. Carl Sagan smoked pot and he has contributed more to science than all anti-druggers combined. No different than alcohol. You just have to fix the current view of it. Make it look like boring ole nothing rather than attacking it to the point where it gains the outlook of forbidden pleasure. Are you against alcohol?

My source may be old, but so are the same old common knowledge, which gets edited over time. Addiction because people like something and want to do it again always gets confused with addiction where the person only cares about what he/she is addicted to and is willing to hurt others to satisfy a need.

In response to point 1.

Video Games vs. homework, that's like comparing a steak for dinner or sheep stomach, that isn't addiction. One is a huge bummer and the other is very enjoyable. In high school I hardly ever did homework and I would play games instead, but it wasn't because I was addicted. It's because I knew I'd be paying for my college education anyways and I didn't want to waste my time with busywork, when in most of my classes homework was worth 10% (at most 20%) of the grade.

Now that I am in college? Nope, homework comes first. P.S. There were no withdrawal effects.

In response to point 2.

Meth isn't like marijuana, comparing the two is an awful idea. Marijuana should be legalized, but meth absolutely should remain heavily controlled.

Exhibit A (potheads) : http://blogs.e-rockford.com/askgeo/files/2009/11/chongcheech-chong.jpg

Exhibit B (meth head): http://s2.hubimg.com/u/82481_f520.jpg

[karkashan]

From what I can tell, these people would even be okay with the legalization of METH. Yeah...

No

I am okay with meth as long as the person takes responsibility, understands the consequences and contributes to society. Carl Sagan smoked pot and he has contributed more to science than all anti-druggers combined. No different than alcohol. You just have to fix the current view of it. Make it look like boring ole nothing rather than attacking it to the point were it gains the outlook of forbidden pleasure. Are you against alcohol?

First off, I live in Missouri. So that means two things: I live in the Meth "capital" of the U.S. of A., and that Missouri has some of the laxest drunkeness laws in the country.

Meth is dangerous, not only to consume but also to make. There have been many an instance of explosions killing the ones trying to make it, and the byproducts that are thrown away as a result of its making are extremely hazardous.

I'm not against alcohol, I'm against Drinking and Driving/Alcohol Addiction. There's a difference.

[Sigtaro]

Video Games vs. homework, that's like comparing a steak for dinner or sheep stomach, that isn't addiction. One is a huge bummer and the other is very enjoyable. In high school I hardly ever did homework and I would play games instead, but it wasn't because I was addicted. It's because I knew I'd be paying for my college education anyways and I didn't want to waste my time with busywork, when in most of my classes homework was worth 10% (at most 20%) of the grade.

Like I said make another thread. The point was people love to play video games. So when taxed a little extra. Ka-ching! They will keep playing it whether it cost an extra $10 per game or the console costing $600. You took the original post too seriously. By the way with all the addictions related to action out there I don't why video games can't be an addiction. Gambling addiction, sex addiction, internet addiction (I wonder if the content for some on the internet is a video game. ), tv addiction, etc Also in the same post I said I used the word "addiction" loosely. ie "I love the McRib sandwich! I am addicted!" People say that kind of stuff casually all the time and they don't need a doctor.
DONE. Not continuing this.

Meth is dangerous, not only to consume but also to make. There have been many an instance of explosions killing the ones trying to make it, and the byproducts that are thrown away as a result of its making are extremely hazardous.

Do you care for the lives of each and every one of the people that do this? If it's that dangerous they should do it in a place where the only people they'll be hurting are themselves. Not sure what the process in making meth involves, but maybe they should wear a suit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_Hurtubise
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iC9di9xWCI

I do not care for a lot of people, but I think they should have freedom to do anything they want as long as it doesn't hurt anybody else. If some of these people knew the dangers and went ahead with it anyways knowing they will get something they want if they succeed then I respect that.

[60fps]

What’s there to debate?

If you like it go, to the nearest koffieshop and buy a bag of green sticky.

If it’s not for you get a beer or something.

[Ezekiel Rage]

In Austria, Mariuhana is illegal, but the debate goes on if we shoudl legalize it. Personally, I don't give a damn. Legalize the shovel and move on to something more relevant. If somebody needs it because he is so weak minded that its his only form of relief, go ahead. I don't mind. I dont mind alcohol abuse either. I dont need any of this stuff, and neither does my family.

Id say that the more interesting topic would be, how to actually make people aware of the things those soft drugs do? How can you make sure your kids and friends arent interested in it anyway? If you legalize it, it gets de-mystified, and thus the kick if doing something forbidden falls away. Im sure some kids lose interest if its legal. As for the rest, tehyll get their fix anyway, legal or not, so no change there...

[Darth Vader]

In Austria, Mariuhana is illegal, but the debate goes on if we shoudl legalize it. Personally, I don't give a damn. Legalize the s*** and move on to something more relevant. If somebody needs it because he is so weak minded that its his only form of relief, go ahead. I don't mind. I dont mind alcohol abuse either. I dont need any of this stuff, and neither does my family.

See, I dislike this standpoint because it assumes people who enjoy using marijuana, or most other drugs for that matter, feel an absolute need for it to function on the same level as a 'normal member of society' who gets 'relief' from other things.

Quick question, bro. Would you be angry if video games were banned? Well, tough luck! You don't need video games to be happy or relieved, and if you disagree with my assessment and feel as though your day would be better with a few video games here and there... you're just weak-minded! Just live with it, regardless of whether you believe the law to be based in bullschlock and hypocrisy, or whether it might result in shovel-tons of people being put in jail over a nonviolent crime! And you beeeeeetter not want to change that... because the issue wouldn't be relevant!

see what I'm getting at?

[Zidane]

Finally, a debate besides Same-Sex Marriage that I love to fight with as much passion as any other!

Ok, much to Cort's dissatisfaction, I must admit that I do enjoy getting a high from Marijuana from time to time. I'm sorry cort, I know you frown on it, but I seem to notice and enjoy the smaller things in life when I am high. Sometimes a clear cold morning is just the most beautiful thing in the world.

I've come up with a few things that would happen in L.A. if marijuana was legalized:

1) Gang violence would decrease immensely. I don't know if anyone here has also been around gang violence, but it's a horrible thing. Except for the one case where someone's friend acts very fast, everyone I have ever met has always been very calm and collective. Why would anyone want to go shoot at a neighborhood gang if they could just stay in and watch the Shining?

2) There would be far less hostility in the black and latino community. Whether from each other or from the police, there would be no real reason for them to fight now that marijuana is legal. Sure, there will probably be people who sell their own brand of weed at a different price, but the majority of their profit will already be gone. It's a whole reason by itself, no one wants to go out into E Los. on a warm Friday night to a gang banger who is probably cheating you out of your weed, only to get shot at by a rival gang, or get caught by cops as you walk away.

3) More money for LA County's struggling schools. I can't stress enough how bad it is to be a teenager in LA. Schools are struggling to get teenagers to even get through High School. (Especially in Black and Latino communities where most money is spent on cops at the schools.) With the money they can get new teachers, more classes and maybe even a couple of computers. Seriously, tax this as you would alcohol or cigarettes and California will once again be in it's former glory. Hell, if they promised that the majority of the tax money would go to benefiting schools they could probably pass this no problem.

4) A rise in people patronizing restaurants in LA. I mean, I've never even had Korean BBQ. I want to, but I just never feel compelled enough to bring it up. It'll help more stores than others.

5) Better movies being made. I know we all want movies to be bad ass, and sometimes you need a little inspiration. Some of the best stories I've ever written were while I was high. Does that make me a bad person?

6) A rise in Total Recall Blu-Rays being sold. Have you ever seen that movie while high? It literally has everything you could ever want. It's an awesome movie.

Now there will be some drawbacks, but nothing more than what Whittier Blvd. gets on a drunken Friday night.

[cortjezter]

Ok, much to Cort's dissatisfaction, I must admit that I do enjoy getting a high from Marijuana from time to time. I'm sorry cort, I know you frown on it, but I seem to notice and enjoy the smaller things in life when I am high. Sometimes a clear cold morning is just the most beautiful thing in the world.

on the contrary, i don't think there's anything particularly wrong with people using (or wanting to use) it. it's just not for me, and that's a personal decision.

i do agree that there would be far greater benefits from legalising marijuana than there might be small side effects.

[Golbez]

I say legalize it and regulate it (I feel the same way about prostitution, incidentally). Whatever crazy things you can imagine that someone might do while high, people do far worse things while under the influence of alcohol.

[Zidane]

Ya...that's not racist... What's wrong with legalizing prostitution? Who does it possibly hurt? It's the oldest profession? This is another thing that would lower crime in America as well. So, why stop that? (Probably worthy of another thread.)

If you want to legalize Marijuanah, regulate it so no crack/pot heads (mostly blacks, not racist btw!) won't b/s their way for their mary jane/crack fix

I don't quite understand what you mean by this... Should we regulate alcohol so that booze hounds can't get their fix? Humans are able to know what their limits are. And whether or not they cross it is their own doing.

[karkashan]

Ya...that's not racist... What's wrong with legalizing prostitution? Who does it possibly hurt? It's the oldest profession? This is another thing that would lower crime in America as well. So, why stop that? (Probably worthy of another thread.)

If you want to legalize Marijuanah, regulate it so no crack/pot heads (mostly blacks, not racist btw!) won't b/s their way for their mary jane/crack fix

I don't quite understand what you mean by this... Should we regulate alcohol so that booze hounds can't get their fix? Humans are able to know what their limits are. And whether or not they cross it is their own doing.

But,we do regulate alcohol...

Despite it's rampant availability, it's still a controlled substance. Of course, how heavily it is controlled varies from state to state. Like my state, Missouri, has no dry counties, while Arkansas does. (These range from absolutely dry to no alcohol sold on Sundays)

[Zidane]

By regulating alcohol I meant that we would keep it out of the hands of people who are alcoholics. I know there are dry counties out there and God bless 'em, but if someone wants alcohol they're gonna get it.

Also, here is a video from someone who is far funnier.



People just want to get high, what's wrong with that?

[karkashan]

By regulating alcohol I meant that we would keep it out of the hands of people who are alcoholics. I know there are dry counties out there and God bless 'em, but if someone wants alcohol they're gonna get it.

The only problem with that is while we try to regulate to the best of our abilities people still abuse it, make their own, etc. Which is exactly what will happen if Marijuana is legalized, as people won't care to purchase legal dope when they can just grow it themselves.

No matter how we try to sugar coat this and similar issues, the problems that are associated with them won't dissappear whether they are legalized/regulated or not. Despite the idiocy of it, there will be people who drink and drive, who smoke pot then operate heavy machinery, who will put themselves and others at risk despite the possibility of harsh consequences.

Some people just don't care about other human beings, they just want that high, consequences be damned, which is unfortunate.

[Zidane]

That's where you're wrong. One thing about buying pot legally would mean that you wouldn't have to worry about growing your own weed or buying it from someone else. Growing your own weed is bothersome and really expensive. It's one of the reasons why people sell weed, to get their money back. Since it's illegal to grow weed you need to buy the best supplies that you can.

If someone can buy a pack of joints or enough weed to smoke a bowl, let them. The consequences for doing something stupid with weed would be just as severe as the consequences with alcohol. If you go to work high, you'll probably get fired just like you would if you were drunk. (Though I've seen people be able to do both.)

People should be able to make their own decisions in life. If they screw their lives up that is their own problem, but don't let a few people ruin what the majority of America, if not the world, find perfectly reasonable as a means to relax with.

[cortjezter]

does alcohol, tobacco, or even cars kill people? yes they do. are they all legal and regulated for safety? yes they are.

could i manufacture my own car, grow my own tobacco, or distill my own spirits? yes i could.

but so few people do because a) it's terribly inconvenient, and b) the resulting quality is likely to be far less than established, professional production. besides, even if people DID do it themselves more, they would still be required to meet safety regulations and other laws.

basically, i think the "people will just grow their own" is not an issue.

[Zidane]

does alcohol, tobacco, or even cars kill people? yes they do. are they all legal and regulated for safety? yes they are.

could i manufacture my own car, grow my own tobacco, or distill my own spirits? yes i could.

but so few people do because a) it's terribly inconvenient, and b) the resulting quality is likely to be far less than established, professional production. besides, even if people DID do it themselves more, they would still be required to meet safety regulations and other laws.

basically, i think the "people will just grow their own" is not an issue.

Well cort, this is where it might be different. It could be so easy to just buy seeds and grow your own. It is more convenient than making your own car/cigarettes/beer, though it still takes time. I'm sure if the gov. had you buy a card so you could grow your own weed for a year they could make their money back through that. As for regulating what goes into it, I've never heard of a joint with nicotine in it. I have heard of some of them laced in PCP though.

[nashdash]

I'm too high right now to give my opinion

[Zidane]

Hell yeah you are!

[Facepalm]

The question is: Why do we need marijuana? Why would it being legal be so great? What gain do you have? Less drug possession arrests, but more driving under the influence arrests.

Sorry, but I can't help but see anyone who valorises potsmoking as anything but selfish and narrow-minded. Arguing that it's on par with alcohol and tobacco is valid. Because we don't need alcohol or tobacco either. We'll never get rid of alcohol (and more's the pity, it is the cause of a hell of a lot of annual deaths worldwide) and tobacco is slowly being purged from the social psyche.
Alcohol and tobacco are problems in itself. Let's not invite in a third pillar just because people act like the right to getting high is an amendment on the constitution. Don't we alter our brain chemistry enough?

[The_Hangman]

Well, I don't actually smoke marijuana so I find it a little hard to care about the debate, but one of the more compelling arguments for its legalization is the curbing of the drug war, especially since it's a tremendous problem here in California. That seems far more important to me than "legalize marijuana because its not that bad for people." Unfortunately, I don't 100% understand the Drug War argument so I can't really make any claims against it.

Anyone want to elaborate?

[Facepalm]

Well, I don't actually smoke marijuana so I find it a little hard to care about the debate, but one of the more compelling arguments for its legalization is the curbing of the drug war, especially since it's a tremendous problem here in California. That seems far more important to me than "legalize marijuana because its not that bad for people." Unfortunately, I don't 100% understand the Drug War argument so I can't really make any claims against it.

Anyone want to elaborate?

From what I understand, marijuana takes up most of the time and resources of drug police, which is problematic because there are obviously more serious drugs out there that should get priority. But because marijuana possession is just as illegal as heroin or meth possession, it clogs up the system.
It also clogs up the legal and penal systems. It's definitely a problem, but legalising it would create just a new slate of problems, in my view. Once again, you don't need it. If people weren't so stubborn about the ability to dope yourself up, we wouldn't have any of these problems. Passing blame does nothing. If you cared about the problems it created, you'd stop using it.

[Zidane]

The question is: Why do we need marijuana? Why would it being legal be so great? What gain do you have? Less drug possession arrests, but more driving under the influence arrests.

Sorry, but I can't help but see anyone who valorises potsmoking as anything but selfish and narrow-minded. Arguing that it's on par with alcohol and tobacco is valid. Because we don't need alcohol or tobacco either. We'll never get rid of alcohol (and more's the pity, it is the cause of a hell of a lot of annual deaths worldwide) and tobacco is slowly being purged from the social psyche.
Alcohol and tobacco are problems in itself. Let's not invite in a third pillar just because people act like the right to getting high is an amendment on the constitution. Don't we alter our brain chemistry enough?

It would be great because we can finally get money back into the system. Teachers have to cut class time or even get a 20% pay cut because California cannot afford to keep those schools open. Do you know how often people pay to smoke weed? Imagine if we could get all of that and regulate it. Get a 10% cut off of what is paid. California could actually be in the black and use the money for more important things. I understand that you think that driving under the influence arrests may rise, but if people break the law they will go to jail. That's why we regulate all forms of any harmful things that we may take. Even medicinal products. I know people who smoke weed, hell, I'm one of them. But they never go out after smoking weed, I know some that do though. But the one thing that weed has over alcohol is that you can't black out on weed. That's at least one extra pro of weed over booze.

And if it is something that a lot of people just want legalized so they can smoke it. Why not? People know the effects and what will happen if they misuse it, people are going to get it no matter how much you try to stop them.