Global Warming?

[Clowns8me]

im not paying extra money to the gov. just because the sun's getting hotter.

JUST MESSING WITH YOU!!!!

no i completly agree with what Esnel Pla said. and who was the guy who said that global warming isnt real. because it is. (lets not start a flame war and get taken off.)

[Count Bleck]

It should be obvious...this is just the government wanting more money.

[cortjezter]

It should be obvious...this is just the government wanting more money.

that's a constant regardless of the topic; all governments want as much money as they can get from people. but i doubt environmental issues--especially those that didn't start with the government--are ploys to bilk constituents from their cash.

besides, look at our current administration; it doesn't give two shovel about the environment or issues of the world, and aside from a meagre effort here and there (such as the recent legislation regarding auto fuel efficiency, etc), more damage has been done than repaired.

nevertheless... if global warming is real or just some elaborate hoax...the point is that the world still has finite resources and what the goal is between environmental groups and activists is that we need to live healthier and more sustainable. since some (especially american) individuals aren't interested or capable of this; it's then the job of society and in turn the government(s) to step in and outline the way to get there. the current american lifestyles of excess just aren't possible anymore, and the world cannot continue to support it.

[Creedy316]

the human race is entirely too irresponsible to take care of their own planet, and cannot take the problem by the reigns and solve it, or more likely, they just dont care at all.

global warming is obviously real, and the notion that its a hoax is just retarded.

its kinda hard to fake a hole in our ozone layer....

[TYFIGHTER]

Well, its a natural process for the Earth to heat and if its going to happen sooner or later whats the big deal with it happening now instead of during other peoples lives?

[Lofty The Metroid]

This entire subject could be explained/answered for most by a single website:

http://gristmill.grist.org/skeptics

(Honestly, I think most people who disbelieve in global warming only do so because they don't want to believe it's real, and not due to legitimate scientific doubt.)

Seriously, though, that site has a counter-argument for nearly every possible argument concerning global warming (and should certainly be suitable enough for anyone on these boards). If any of you feel you're clever enough to outwit the entire scientific community with a few shallow observations, you'll probably get a dose of humility there...

And it's really easy to use, too. For example:

And if the planet is really heating up, then why did we have one of the worst winters in the worlds history in parts of the world? Here in Seattle we had the biggest and most avalanches and biggest snow fall we've ever had in the mountains. If global warming was true, then shouldnt the opposite be happening?

You may want to look at:
It's cold today in Wagga Wagga: http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/10/31/214357/31
Some sites show cooling: http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/11/9/182921/777

Global warming is much more complex than "it's a few degrees warmer out here today" all across the world. It's a global disruption in climate, and those repercussions are going to manifest themselves in various ways. Some of these record winters could have been influenced in such a way. (And I've heard such things to support that.)

I'm not saying it's anywhere near scientifically accurate or realistic (in fact, I would argue the opposite), but there's a reason why the movie The Day After Tomorrow emphasizes and exaggerates the effects global warming would have on Northern regions.

[Lyude77]

I don't really think that global warming is much of an issue. I just think we should be doing the stuff that would reduce global warming anyway, because whether it's correct or not, the steps we take to protect the environment would be good for us. That's just what I think.

[Algorithm]

Other than saying "global warming isn't much of an issue," you're pretty much right.

Regardless of whether the earth's climate is changing, there is a pile of evidence that shows how the way humans live is dangerous. I'm studying city planning, and with that comes a whole whack of issues: economical, political, technological, environmental, cultural, among others. I won't do it here, but I've written entire papers of urban sprawl alone and how it's changing the way we live.

Early cities settled on rivers, for industry. People lived around said industry so that they could work. Then they started to realise that the living conditions and pollution was bad for them. With the introduction of the car (the car industry bought up trolleys and rail lines so that they could get people buying their cars instead), people were able to move out into suburbs and drive to work everyday. They would be happy and healthy. Well, now because of our heavy reliance on the car, cities are stretched out so much that people don't have much of a choice in driving a car or not. That, with the low-density, segregated, and fragmented development contributes greatly to failing infrastucture that is terribly inefficient. Services are stretched out, cost more, and take a much greater toll on the environment.

Fortunately, some planners now realise that we really need to do something. Many cities, such as Portland and Toronto are putting in greenbelts that stop the expansion of cities outward and force intensification. It's pretty much been proven that with safe design elements, high-density planning with mix-use can create an economically strong city with a great sense of place and varying culture.

If we learn to live cleaner lives, the environment will surely benefit.

[cortjezter]

I don't really think that global warming is much of an issue. I just think we should be doing the stuff that would reduce global warming anyway, because whether it's correct or not, the steps we take to protect the environment would be good for us. That's just what I think.

very well said. although i would argue that climate change--whether our fault or not--IS a growing problem, and like quoted above, it's just good for us to protect our (way of) life by protecting the things that support us.

[Homesrfan]

I've had long discussions with this subject with my parents. They are both conservatives who don't believe in this, or just think it's a non issue. I for one am very concerned about it. They don't think it should be mentioned at school or anything, which it really isn't, but I think it definitely should. All the facts and evidence that point to this being true are overwhelming. We definitely aren't being considerate of our earth either way, and I don't understand people who wouldn't want to help reduce pollution or oil use because they have a certain stance on the issue.

[bearded OTP]

There was a report in the news a day or two ago that states that certain types of rocks actual absorb carbon. these rocks are found just under the crust of the soil. Very cool stuff.

This tells me that our planet knows whats going on more than we and algore do.

[Navarre]

Fun Fact #1: Climate Change is happening and it is our fault
Fun Fact #2: The temperature is continuing to rise
Fun Fact #3: It isn't part of the normal cycle
Fun Fact #4: It can't be explained by the sun or any other factor

The global temperature is rising -


Global Temperature is clearly linked to CO2 levels -


CO2 levels are higher than they should be in the natural cycle because of human emissions -


Observed temperatures correlate most closely with climate forcasts that take into account human emissions than ‘natural’ CO2 levels -


Climate Change is happening, it is our fault. It will affect us and we should be doing things to curb it.

Or!

If you are one of those people who don't believe silly namby-pamby facts or graphs, then try this one.

Why shouldn't we be recycling anyway? Have you all forgotten about pollution? That's still happening you know! Also, we going to run out of fossil fuels, so really we should be putting some money into renewable sources while we are not in an energy depression.

So in conclusion, there is no reason to not take all the clean, green initiatives regardless of whether climate change is happening (even though it definitely is).

[TYFIGHTER]

we very much have the power to destroy ourselves, or at least a very large chunk of us. We can make our home inhospitable to human life.

So, its really late and Im probably not taking everything in correctly but from what I read, Global Warming will create an Ice Age? If so, why dont we just restart after its over like the last Ice Age? Scientists have no problem saying the Ice Age was a natural thing, and that its just a process the world had to endure, yet the first small sign of it happening to us they start crying like little pussies and try to blame it on something we have control over to give us a false sense of security and the lie that we can stop it from happening.

People, its going to happen whether we clean up or not. Yeah, we should use cleaner cars and create clean energy sources to create a better living environment overall... but it isnt going to stop this. No matter how much we clean up and slow it down, its still coming. Its like slowing a train heading right for you at 300 mph down to 200mph. Thats great, you have a little longer to be ok, but youre still screwed.

Besides, with all of our technology and knowledge itd be pathetic that we couldnt manage our way through it. We need to stop investing money, time, and resources on how to stop it... and start investing them in figuring out how to survive it.

Animals venting themselves is a natural occurrence that is biologically necessary. Us driving around in SUVs and HUMMERs isn't. We can live perfectly fine without that.

But were cows there to contribute to the last Ice Age? Im not really sure actually.
And humanity can also live without industrialization. Should we just ditch everything and go back to the Little House on the Prairie living? I also think we're trying to do so many drastic changes too fast. If you want to quit smoking do you just completely stop one day? No, that wouldnt last very long. You have to ease yourself off of it. Its the same thing, they need to stop putting so much pressure on people to do everything this instance, and try to gradually ween us off of these things we've become so accustomed to.

As the temperature climbs, the levels of CO2 in the atmosphere climb as well. Scientists can measure the amount of CO2 from thousands of years ago using ice core samples, and it shows that we're at about the same level of CO2 in the atmosphere (and thus temperature) as the Earth was at prior to the last ice age.

So what youre telling me is, our CO2 levels are the same as a time on Earth where there were no cars or industrialization? Didnt you just basically show us that no matter what all of this is going to happen, no matter how much we're contributing? We're just getting there faster, but either way its going to happen.

I don't know how much anyone else cares about the animal population, but for the first time in recorded history, we're seeing polar bears drown because there is so little ice in the Arctic during the summer. If the polar bear population drops, the population of other animals (seals, for example) will be allowed to climb. These animals are then allowed to over hunt/graze, diminishing the populations of other species, which in turn affects whatever else relates to them and so on and so forth.

How come people support the idea of "survival of the fittest" yet as soon as we start to see it take place all the hippie wimps start crying and want to save them? Its a natural thing for species to die off. If they cant survive the climate changes, its their fault. Its something thats supposed to happen. Its also natural for other animals to rise up and take over... But seriously, we dont need to put our lives on halt because some random animal drama is going on somewhere. If anything, the animals should be putting their lives on halt to help us! Im looking at you, cows!

So, which sounds worse? Being subjected to the horrors of green cars and alternative fuels, or complete and utter chaos? Those are the stakes. That's what your opinions risk.

And its not like we're all against the idea of a cleaner world, its just when they use stupid propaganda to scare us into buying the stuff. Either way, the chaos is coming.

"Is", "isnt", "who", or "what" shouldnt be what we're debating and worrying about... "when" is the question we should be concerned of.

[Algorithm]

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but this is probably the most serious issue the Earth will come to face. It's not propaganda, or crap in anyway. Just because you choose to ignore the facts posted in this very thread doesn't mean you should go on an illogical rant about what you think the reality of the subject is.

We're not going into an ice age. Some scientists thought that the Earth would cool because of because of the amount of aerosols we're putting into the atmosphere as well as those naturally occurring (think volcanoes). However, if we stop this bad practice of putting the aerosols into the atmosphere, it would only increase the global average temperature that much more. The Earth isn't cooling, and it's not going into another ice age at this point. Only 20% of the Earth's lifespan has been through ice ages, the rest has been warm periods.

And your idea of just trying to figure out how to survive is simply a joke. The only way to survive is global awareness and participation. Even if we remove human from the Earth right now, some scientists feel that we've already hit the tipping point. There are areas of ice in Siberia that are predicted to melt very soon. If they do, they will release as much CO2 at once as humans have over the past 200 years.

There are things going on that we aren't even aware of, and your ignorance and telling people it's not a big deal doesn't help.

[hcig]

Heres two tips for you:

manbearpig = global warming

history = learn it

[karkashan]

Trying to remember, but isn't it true that one volcanic eruption does more harm to the ozone layer than anything we as humans have ever done since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution?

Just a thought.

[SEGAsbest]

There is so much ignorance in this thread, it's truly sad. However I have always said something about Bush, he was right about one thing; That Global Warming should be called Climate change, and why? Not because of the reason he was doing it, rather Global Warming is a misleading title that makes people who failed to pay attention/remember their high school/university Science courses think it's just referring to a rise in temperatures and thus winter should be warmer (as it's clear so many here do).

Anyways, there are other huge concerns caused by our addiction to oil and plastics:

Evidence of the effects of chronic air pollution on the brain comes from several
studies performed in Mexico. Researchers compared the brains of accidental death
victims, both adults and children, from cities with highly polluted ambient air versus
cities with relatively clean air. Similar studies were performed on healthy domestic
dogs. The more polluted cities typically had ozone and particulate matter levels
above our national ambient air quality standards. The results of these studies
showed that levels of inflammatory markers and abnormal protein deposits were
higher in the brain tissue of those from the highly-polluted versus the relatively
clean cities. Both of these changes resemble those that typically precede
Alzheimer’s disease. However, these changes do not necessarily imply the onset of
disease.

Here - http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:vzd9VJMHFPcJ:www.arb.ca.gov/research/health/healthup/dec07.pdf+brains+adjusting+for+increased+pollution&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgL--OAi6PMtaQQo8mOQZSGzTJRXVeFHCbl-NxYtHWKi2AJvZU0C7EM3UnZsqszWxzp3SCLjSuXSLWfMvOMzRBgVr2eOdZQXwzDaaA0FVHl5dyDukB-Fee9eNiAmivfxIQAVwCn&sig=AHIEtbTXUoDX3NzyfcA9lNcamcuv-gcZGQ

Numerous scientific studies have linked these pollutants to lung cancer, asthma attacks, heart attacks, strokes, and early death as well as increased hospitalizations for breathing problems. Research also shows that ozone air pollution – or smog – may actually cause asthma in otherwise healthy children.

- http://www.californialung.org/advocacy/air-pollution

Then there is the lesser studied Hypercapnia, a medical condition caused by increased CO2 in our blood.

http://ajrccm.atsjournals.org/cgi/content/full/160/5/1567
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercapnia

[Phoenicks]

As James Fox pointed out, Climategate really stuck a hole in Global Warming. For the uninitiated, Climategate refers to a series of e-mails between scientists at East Anglia's CRU that revealed clear manipulating of data and abuse of the scientific process. It was also connected to data in the US, and was recently discovered to have contained much of the sama Data used by NASA.

But that hasn't stopped politicians from keeping GW a political issue.

[cortjezter]

if one university's department was manipulating their data for whatever reason, that is awful. however, it seems 'climategate' may not be all it's cracked up to be: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... ptics-lies

however, climate change is widely accepted by all serious and respected scientists around the world, not just one institution or lab. so one lab's misinformation does not refute a global scientific consensus.

as for snowfall disproving climate change, that is retarded, and is in fact evidence that reinforces climate change. it's not about the world getting warmer as so many people mistake it to mean, but about things changing in ways that make weather extremes--hotter summers, colder winters, greater frequency of natural disasters--more extreme than ever. they are inter-related: warmer summers put more moisture into the air so when things cool in winter, there is more snow to fall.

finally, public opinion has nothing to do with scientific research and evidence. even if 99% of people think it's a non-issue or don't believe in it at all doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[coffeewithchess]

My thoughts:
Government is it using for more reasons to try and tax/control people.

Climate changes happen in time.
Some mammoths froze standing up, with food in their stomachs only half digested.
If they're concerned with "global warming", they need to kill the cows and cap the volcanoes.

Also, if they could build a shield, like Cort's sunglasses, over the earth, that would probably help as well.

Also, does it make any sense replacing light bulbs that use more energy, with light bulbs that use less energy, but they contain mercury?

[NES_Master]

Wow. I just spent the last 45 minutes reading this topic.

I have to say I land somewhere in the middle. I do believe that Global Warming/Climate Change is happening. I believe that as a species that we added to the problem. But what can we do?

Changing the light bulbs in your house is really insignificant.We really have to go after industries to clean up power consumption problems.

We also have to build cleaner sources of energy. The best bang for the buck is hydroelectric and nuclear. Solar and wind power are not efficient enough (not a big enough output) to power millions of people.

The problem is were to we draw the line. At what cost to try and slow down the global warming? We still have to live on this planet. We have lived a certain way on this planet for so long. I don't think are going to change over night.

Maybe this is natures way of finally getting rid of us.

Fortunately, some planners now realise that we really need to do something. Many cities, such as Portland and Toronto are putting in greenbelts that stop the expansion of cities outward and force intensification. It's pretty much been proven that with safe design elements, high-density planning with mix-use can create an economically strong city with a great sense of place and varying culture.

If we learn to live cleaner lives, the environment will surely benefit.

I live in the city of Toronto. We are so screwed. Our city is now finally realizing that our transit system is 30 years behind. Traffic in the city is the biggest joke ever. Worst in North America, so I heard the other day on the radio.

[alicedisuja]

Climates have always been going up and down. Not so long ago they were calling Global Cooling a fact! Here are your choices, bold adventurer.

1. Listen to your pal, Al.

2. Listen to both serious views on global warming, because anti-global-warmingists are silenced.

3. Blow up the sun!

[SEGAsbest]

I really don't get the opposition to clean renewable energy, for less than half the AIG bail out we could have built enough windmills to power 20% of the eastern half of the United States. Which would provide electricity for as low as 5¢ per kwh. Either way, I am doing my part; I have been riding my bike for 5 years, and the most I have ever spent in a year on gasoline was this past one (2009) when I only spent $92.58 across the entire 12 months.

The people who oppose this new technology often root their opinions in non-facts to justify their anti-new technology attitudes. Climategate being a key example, or the King Juan Carlos University study which was cited heavily on fictitious "news" channels like Fox "News".

[Devil_Rising]

You wanna know if there's any such thing as global warming? Ask the polar bears.

The silliest thing about this ongoing "debate" in the West (IE America), is that most of the countries on earth agree, because of SCIENTIFIC data, that it is happening and happening at a rapid rate. But beyond that, WHO CARES whether "Global Warming" exists or not? I never really understood the logic behind those that argue that it isn't? So WHAT if it isn't? What then? Are they going to also argue that pollution doesn't exist, that it isn't a problem? Are they going to argue that human beings AREN'T polluting the s**t out of our planet? Because "Global Warming" or not, THAT is the real issue here: Clean Air, Clean Water, Clean Soil. Ice caps melting is only part of the problem.

The "debate" needs to end. We need to do something about POLLUTION in this world. If those who believe Global Warming is happening, and that it's man made, are right, then curbing and actually starting to clean up pollution will help fight it. And even in the magical realm where GW DOESN'T exist, fighting pollution would STILL be a good thing for everybody. It's a win-win situation.

[coffeewithchess]

Pollution is a bad thing. Not just for us now, but future generations as well.
BUT, when you realize the government has the power to regulate more efficiently, but chooses to turn an eye to issues, then who do you blame?

Well, I guess you can blame the ignorant people that keep electing people promising change and nothing is done(why hasn't Obama put the solar panels back on the White House?). If Americans(and others) would look at voting records, and what people have said/done for 20+ years, instead of 2 years before running for election, I think that would help...

If you haven't seen "Who Killed the Electric Car", I would suggest you start there.

It's an interesting watch.