What, no marijuana debate thread?

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Re: What, no marijuana debate thread?

Postby Darth Vader » 25 May 2010 19:35

Facepalm wrote:
The_Hangman wrote:Well, I don't actually smoke marijuana so I find it a little hard to care about the debate, but one of the more compelling arguments for its legalization is the curbing of the drug war, especially since it's a tremendous problem here in California. That seems far more important to me than "legalize marijuana because its not that bad for people." Unfortunately, I don't 100% understand the Drug War argument so I can't really make any claims against it.

Anyone want to elaborate?



From what I understand, marijuana takes up most of the time and resources of drug police, which is problematic because there are obviously more serious drugs out there that should get priority. But because marijuana possession is just as illegal as heroin or meth possession, it clogs up the system.
It also clogs up the legal and penal systems. It's definitely a problem, but legalising it would create just a new slate of problems, in my view. Once again, you don't need it. If people weren't so stubborn about the ability to dope yourself up, we wouldn't have any of these problems. Passing blame does nothing. If you cared about the problems it created, you'd stop using it.

You know, we don't need video games either. Maybe we should just ban those, and throw people who play 'em anyway in jail!

meh, my example is kind of lame but you know what I'm saying. Personal freedoms that have absolutely no effect on the lives of others shouldn't be banned simply because they're recreational tools and therefore 'aren't needed'.

You wouldn't happen to be a Puritan, would you? :)

Now, if you'd please, I'd like to know the problems marijuana creates that aren't directly linked to the fact that it's illegal in the first place. In other words, no, you can't cite crime, or the amount of money spent on fighting the drug, or the 'gateway drug effect', or things like that. Basically... what would this 'slate of problems' be if marijuana were legalized?

Its carcinogenic effects aren't as profound as dangerous legal alternatives (such as cigarettes), and there's no definitive link between marijuana and long term health issues (other than schizophrenia, but that's still not definitive and only those who were very susceptible to schizophrenia beforehand - a small percentage of the population - are at risk. Driving while under the influence of marijuana is dangerous, but not comparable to driving while drunk, and an education campaign like the Don't Drink and Drive wouldn't be difficult to fund at all with the tax revenue that the federal government would receive if they'd legalize and tax.

In other words, I'd understand your standpoint a little better if weed were anywhere near as dangerous as tobacco, alcohol, or even many of the addictive and/or destructive drugs pharmacists and physicians in America peddle (many of which could be phased out if marijuana became a largely-used medical tool). But it's not.
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Re: What, no marijuana debate thread?

Postby alisdaa12321 » 02 Jun 2010 12:42

Well there is no doubt that marijuana is not good for you. well unless your one in the few who takes it legally (medicinal marijuana and such). But I think this topic boils down to this. One should be able to choose what to put inside there own body. Would the government arrest me if I picked grass off the floor and ate it. No. Would they arrest me if I picked a certain type of plant and smoked it? Yes. I fail to see the difference. The effect it has on one's mind is on THEIR mind. They own it, they can choose what to do with it. And to be quite frank there is not much pure hard evidence saying anything about marijuana having an effect on crime rates. Well not any that I know of anyway.
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Re: What, no marijuana debate thread?

Postby MalikHalo » 03 Jun 2010 11:50

Personally, I think almost all of the people who want it legalized (a good 90%) are potheads who just want it to be easier to get, have it cost less, and not be ostracized for using it. Sure, they may cite that legalizing it would help society and can make a good argument for it. That's really just a means to an end, though. They don't really care about it.

Even if it was legalized, I don't see a large amount of potsmokers paying taxes to sell/use it, especially not the ones who do it illegally now. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if they started selling/using harder stuff since marijuana would be so easy to get.


Then again, that's just what I think. I don't have any proof.
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Re: What, no marijuana debate thread?

Postby alisdaa12321 » 03 Jun 2010 11:58

a good 90%? that seems like a pretty big number. ill tell u now im not in the 90%. The reason i want marijuana legalized is because i am a libertarian. I dont believe the government should tell you how to act or what to do. besides sure potheads might want it legalized. but drug dealers sure dont. the prices would bomb. i do think we would need a period of time to adjust but in the end it would be a lot better. look at what happened when alcohol was banned back in the 90s. Just watch scarface for a basic understanding. and when the law was repealed? well today nobody is complaining that alcohol should be banned (well MOST people arent).
well thats my view
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Re: What, no marijuana debate thread?

Postby karkashan » 03 Jun 2010 19:16

alisdaa12321 wrote:a good 90%? that seems like a pretty big number. ill tell u now im not in the 90%. The reason i want marijuana legalized is because i am a libertarian. I dont believe the government should tell you how to act or what to do. besides sure potheads might want it legalized. but drug dealers sure dont. the prices would bomb. i do think we would need a period of time to adjust but in the end it would be a lot better. look at what happened when alcohol was banned back in the 90s. Just watch scarface for a basic understanding. and when the law was repealed? well today nobody is complaining that alcohol should be banned (well MOST people arent).
well thats my view


90's? Think about 70 years earlier. (Edit: For US, at least)
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Re: What, no marijuana debate thread?

Postby Zidane » 03 Jun 2010 22:42

MalikHalo wrote:Personally, I think almost all of the people who want it legalized (a good 90%) are potheads who just want it to be easier to get, have it cost less, and not be ostracized for using it. Sure, they may cite that legalizing it would help society and can make a good argument for it. That's really just a means to an end, though. They don't really care about it.

Even if it was legalized, I don't see a large amount of potsmokers paying taxes to sell/use it, especially not the ones who do it illegally now. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if they started selling/using harder stuff since marijuana would be so easy to get.


Then again, that's just what I think. I don't have any proof.


Most pro-marijuana documentaries will cite that legalizing it will hurt a lot of drug dealers. Plus if they legalize it the government will save a ton of money on petty drug crimes.
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Re: What, no marijuana debate thread?

Postby alisdaa12321 » 04 Jun 2010 06:27

karkashan wrote:
alisdaa12321 wrote:a good 90%? that seems like a pretty big number. ill tell u now im not in the 90%. The reason i want marijuana legalized is because i am a libertarian. I dont believe the government should tell you how to act or what to do. besides sure potheads might want it legalized. but drug dealers sure dont. the prices would bomb. i do think we would need a period of time to adjust but in the end it would be a lot better. look at what happened when alcohol was banned back in the 90s. Just watch scarface for a basic understanding. and when the law was repealed? well today nobody is complaining that alcohol should be banned (well MOST people arent).
well thats my view


90's? Think about 70 years earlier. (Edit: For US, at least)


ahh sry my bad ;) i meant 1900's ahh u know. If it was in the 90's i wonder what would have happened? :P
but anyways my view stays the same
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Re: What, no marijuana debate thread?

Postby BlankCanvas » 06 Sep 2010 18:39

I wouldn't approve if the government legalized marijuana. It's already bad enough that hundreds of thousands of people in the US smoke cigarettes; we don't need another harmful drug in people's hands.
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Re: What, no marijuana debate thread?

Postby Darth Vader » 06 Sep 2010 19:37

But marijuana is hardly what I'd consider a 'dangerous' or 'harmful' drug. Because, uh, it's not. I mean, if you wanna get finnicky, nothing smoked is perfectly safe, but many smokable herbs - marijuana included - are safe to the point where you don't have to worry about repercussions.

Same can't be claimed about tobacco, alcohol, or hell, most FDA-approved pharmaceuticals.
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Re: What, no marijuana debate thread?

Postby 8 bit » 29 Sep 2010 20:08

It should remain illegal (where it is) based on the sole fact that it FREAKIN' STINKS when people smoke it. Really, people smoking pot at concerts should be shot for stinking the place for the rest of us... :evil:

But, you know... looking at it from a an objective point, it should probably be on the same level as tobacco. People smoke marijuana, and they'll keep doing it regardless of the laws. As long as the drugs don't mess with your head and it isn't easy to purchase for those who shouldn't be smoking it, drugs should be legal. I guess. :P
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Re: What, no marijuana debate thread?

Postby hellfire888 » 14 Oct 2010 12:30

i say legalize it.. there are countries that dont have drug laws.. and those countries have almost zero crime.. wanna know why? cause everyone's happy.
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Re: What, no marijuana debate thread?

Postby Zidane » 18 Oct 2010 02:55

Almost time for me to vote. What a beautiful place California will be once marijuana is legalized. We'll also get the most amazing live shows in all of America. You thought Coachella, Ozzfest and Smoke Out were big before? Just imagine being in an open area with a ton of happy people digging the music. Fudge yeah.
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Re: What, no marijuana debate thread?

Postby Zidane » 03 Nov 2010 05:44

Well, we lost. Damn...
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Re: What, no marijuana debate thread?

Postby karkashan » 04 Nov 2010 03:55

Zidane wrote:Well, we lost. Damn...


You do know Marijuana would have still been illegal if it had actually passed, right?

Federal law > State law.
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Re: What, no marijuana debate thread?

Postby Zidane » 04 Nov 2010 04:19

karkashan wrote:
Zidane wrote:Well, we lost. Damn...


You do know Marijuana would have still been illegal if it had actually passed, right?

Federal law > State law.


State's Rights = Questionable outcome that could change the way every state looks at marijuana.
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Re: What, no marijuana debate thread?

Postby LordTyroxx » 04 Nov 2010 08:57

Well, prop 19 needed to be revised anyway. It needs to be more generous towards growers. With prop 19, I think they would only allow the growing room of 25 square feet and they only are able to have up to 1 oz to sell.. And it wasn't that well written, maybe they can rewrite it and get some more things right, then it would pass.

It's important not to waste jail cells on such an issue. There are people out there that do far worse than smoke pot and laugh then fall asleep.


I'm trying to figure out what pot-smokers would talk about when they are high after it is legalized. The only thing that stoners i know talk about is legalizing pot. That's IT! :P
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Re: What, no marijuana debate thread?

Postby Zidane » 04 Nov 2010 14:33

LordTyroxx wrote:Well, prop 19 needed to be revised anyway. It needs to be more generous towards growers. With prop 19, I think they would only allow the growing room of 25 square feet and they only are able to have up to 1 oz to sell.. And it wasn't that well written, maybe they can rewrite it and get some more things right, then it would pass.

It's important not to waste jail cells on such an issue. There are people out there that do far worse than smoke pot and laugh then fall asleep.


I'm trying to figure out what pot-smokers would talk about when they are high after it is legalized. The only thing that stoners i know talk about is legalizing pot. That's IT! :P


You should start watching awesome sci-fi movies with stoners. Here's a list on where to start:

Total Recall
12 Monkeys
A Clockwork Orange
2001 A Space Odyssey
Minority Report
Blade Runner
A Scanner Darkly
Moon

These movies usually get a conversation started. Try it.
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Re: What, no marijuana debate thread?

Postby Freestateproject » 11 Nov 2010 06:18

This may sound radical to some but I say re-legalize pot and all plants starting right now. It's a shame that fantastic plants like cannabis and coca were banned by the US government. This horrible prohibition isn't quite working out. Among other negative side effects, it's funded a Civil War in Mexico. How many 1000s of teens have to die in Mexico before the US government does the right thing?
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Re: What, no marijuana debate thread?

Postby Zidane » 19 Nov 2010 18:07

Freestateproject wrote:This may sound radical to some but I say re-legalize pot and all plants starting right now. It's a shame that fantastic plants like cannabis and coca were banned by the US government. This horrible prohibition isn't quite working out. Among other negative side effects, it's funded a Civil War in Mexico. How many 1000s of teens have to die in Mexico before the US government does the right thing?


Maybe America wants to kill all Mexicans?

*gasp*
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Re: What, no marijuana debate thread?

Postby DrewHiggins » 20 Feb 2011 17:31

to put things simply, if you do it in the privacy of your own home... fine.

but if you are driving on a freeway while stoned, i have a problem with that. end of story. :x
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Re: What, no marijuana debate thread?

Postby tristenj1992 » 20 Feb 2011 18:08

DrewHiggins wrote:to put things simply, if you do it in the privacy of your own home... fine.

but if you are driving on a freeway while stoned, i have a problem with that. end of story. :x

I guess I can agree with that. If people want to poison themselves, they can do it in privacy. Just don't take it out where it can effect others.
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Re: What, no marijuana debate thread?

Postby Neader » 21 Feb 2011 21:57

But being high raises your confidence more than anything.

By the way, I'm sorry I haven't been here in 7 months for those of you who remember me, being on here for 3 minutes really makes me miss this place.
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Re: What, no marijuana debate thread?

Postby SEGAsbest » 21 Feb 2011 22:16

DrewHiggins wrote:to put things simply, if you do it in the privacy of your own home... fine.

but if you are driving on a freeway while stoned, i have a problem with that. end of story. :x



This is how I feel pretty much, that and I also feel that the stuff smells terrible. I would propose that it and tobacco only be legal on private property, I shouldn't have to be exposed to second hand smoke or put up with other people's bad habits in a public space.

My University campus finally banned smoking this year and it has made walking around the campus a much more enjoyable experience.
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Re: What, no marijuana debate thread?

Postby LordTyroxx » 22 Feb 2011 02:12

Neader wrote:But being high raises your confidence more than anything.



Unless you are driving a car with 2 stoned girls at night. Their freaking out will freak anyone out. I was fine though. It was better than Gran Turismo 5. :P 45 mph in the mountains is very very fast at night.

Nevertheless, i probably won't be doing that again. It felt dangerous. hahaha
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Re: What, no marijuana debate thread?

Postby Darth Vader » 25 Feb 2011 14:29

Neader wrote:But being high raises your confidence more than anything.

depends on who you are, really. I've met more than a few stoners who turn reclusive or paranoid when they're high. Some people just can't handle it, too.
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