Does "God" Exist?

[Nintend()\/\/|\|312]

Here we go. I decided to put up the most ridiculously controversial topic I could think of. Nobody is more fanatically one sided on a topic more than that of who they think they will be meeting when they die, or who they won't, or if death is anything more than a painful way of falling into a dreamless sleep. Is all that time spent preparing for the after-life worth it?
Now by "God" I mean omniscient, omnipotent spiritual beings or even just spirituality in general, so this is a question for everybody regardless of faith. So I guess I'll get the ball rolling with my answer to whether "God" exists or not:

Maybe.

[MalikHalo]

I used to be a devouted Christian, but as time passed, I started questioning everything more and more.

I went with maybe. I've not given up my faith completely, but I see more shades of grays than black and white.

[el_sean]

It's really difficult to prove that there isn't a supreme being, let alone confirm that there is one. I personally believe that there is one. Just take a look at all the creatures on the Earth. What do we have that no other animal has? We have the ability to reason, to think. I personally feel that intelligence (like the kind that we have) can't really be created naturally. Sure, some animals like monkeys have problem solving skills, but they still don't even come close to the type that we have. If the Earth was created without some outside force, then our very species is simply some bizarre fluke. Why else are we so different?

[Skooter]

I'm an agnostic, I guess. I wouldn't really believe in anything unless I saw it with my own eyes.
I don't find the idea that everything in this world was created without a supreme being hard to believe, actually. But I can never be sure, so I can't say I'm an atheist either.

[Bjorna]

I'm a christian, so I believe God exist. Now why shouldn't he(or she, but I'm gonna go with he for this post) well take a look at the two most common creation theories.
1. God creates the world in 7 days blah blah blah, you all know this one
2. Two particles crashes into each other and BANG the big bang happens, and you all know the rest.

What do both of these have in common?
the christian one will ask the atheist where the two particles come from, and he can't answer or will reply "they've always been there". The atheist will ask the christian where God came from, and he can't answer or will reply "he has always been there".

Either way what you choose to believe, you don't know more about where everything comes from, than the other person.

So since I find it too hard to believe that two particles, that have no origin, crashed into each other, I chose to go with the God one. It makes more sense, I believe. But hey, perhaps God created the big bang We will never know










or will we

[dbroad]

Im agnostic, many creatures have intelligence look at monkeys, dolphins, elephants all three have an understanding of death and the ability to mourn, learn to use tools and form relationships. Elephants even go so far as to act as a community the elders know the routes and are teaching them to the young ones, they have a matriarchal "grandmother" figure who decides if a new comer can enter the herd and selects a sucessor. Humanity may appear to be the most advanced but look at how animals adapted so quickly to us and now use our presence to their advantage. For the universes creation which one? energy is constant so for the universe to dissapear suggests that all the energy goes to one place thus bending time due to relativity causing a massive jump backwards thus restarting the loop. Following on with Einstein who said that if time didn't exist everything would happen at once thus causing energy to be created as scientific laws don't exist outside of time meaning that once everything has happened time now would exist so the universe would start its loop. I believe God exists but science seems to be doing pretty well especially in the more advanced areas mainly known by the scientists but not the public. It took me a few weeks at uni to even begin to uderstand the concepts but now a year in we get to learn of these areas and how they roughly work admittedly the point of null-time will always be theory but it is looking very likely but can't be proven so God can exist as the start point as only after all energy is gone will time stop existing by which point we can't measure anything due to nothing existing.

[Edjarosu]

So since I find it too hard to believe that two particles, that have no origin, crashed into each other, I chose to go with the God one. It makes more sense, I believe.

So having two infinitesimally tiny particles which have always existed is a less likely scenario than a big man in the sky who created you and everyone you see, and he has a list of things you can and can't do, and he loves you, but if you do any of those things he'll send you to a place where you'll burn for all eternity?

I'm not a Christian. I'm not an atheist. I don't think I even really fit into the category of agnostic. I'm just a person who has never understood why people feel the need to make a decision on the subject. Seems like a fairly useless discussion, imo. If you need to be threatened with eternal torment to give yourself morals, then maybe you're just not a very good person.

[wii_fiend]

If you go with the scientific route aka the big bang theory or something similar you have to think "but what created the matter involved in the great cosmic explosion" then you can reply "all the matter in the universe came together and made the big bang" "but what created the matter before that" "i dunno i guess god or some other divine force" "but what created that and that an that and so on and so on" Really at the scientific level we are at right now nothing can explain what created everything or did nothing create it and the universe was alwasy there since the beginning of time "but then what created time" "ummm... well you see" At this time nothing is certain and can't be certain untill it becomes human nature to not look back further and further back in history. "so there is a god or wait... huh"

Just something to confuse the heck out of you.

[Dark Evil Emu]

This is a question that I have yet to decide for myself, so I'll put "maybe."

Evolution makes perfect sense to me. I find it totally plausible that bodies even as complex as ours could have come from single-celled organisms so many years ago.

I also find the big bang theory to be just as plausible as there being a God that created the universe. It's equally possible that if God exists, he is responsible for both evolution and the big bang.

The only thing that really makes the lack of God questionable for me is the human mind. It's not that we have the ability to reason so much. It's that we can do so many things with our minds. We have emotions, thoughts, memories, imagination. It's really hard for me to make the connection from mass and matter to all the stuff that our mind can do.

Other things also discourage me from believing in God (I'm assuming a Christian God). The fact that the Bible says the world is only a few thousand years old gets to me. It's indisputable nowadays that the earth is way more than a few thousand years old. Another thing that always bothered me was the extreme lack of proof of a God existing.

I guess all that makes me agnostic, although I'm not exactly sure what agnostic means.

[Edjarosu]

The only thing that really makes the lack of God questionable for me is the human mind. It's not that we have the ability to reason so much. It's that we can do so many things with our minds. We have emotions, thoughts, memories, imagination. It's really hard for me to make the connection from mass and matter to all the stuff that our mind can do.

It all has mass. Everything you think is just the sum of your experiences, combined with your brain's complex decision-making process. This is sort of another example of people saying "God did it." when they don't understand something.

Other things also discourage me from believing in God (I'm assuming a Christian God). The fact that the Bible says the world is only a few thousand years old gets to me. It's indisputable nowadays that the earth is way more than a few thousand years old.

Oh, believe me. They'll dispute it. The one I hear most is the idea that God made it seem like the earth is millions of years old, just to test the faith of humanity.

Another thing that always bothered me was the extreme lack of proof of a God existing.

And you happen to bring up another cop-out answer with this one. When you say that, they'll generally say that, well, you can't prove that he doesn't exist. Which is true. But it still doesn't prove that he does exist.

[cortjezter]

let's keep discussion on topic to the existence of 'god'. the thread doesn't explicitly say whether the 'christian god' is in question, or any god from any religion in general, but feel free to debate multiple religions.

non-existential discussion (i.e. bible quotes, stating opinion as fact, etc) are not appropriate, and will be moderated accordingly. you may discuss religion-specifics, but keep it related to the topic.

of course, respect one another. insulting or inflammatory remarks are not tolerated (here or anywhere on the boards).

[Count Bleck]

"It all has mass. Everything you think is just the sum of your experiences, combined with your brain's complex decision-making process. This is sort of another example of people saying "God did it." when they don't understand something."

The key word there is complex, and you never really answered his argument...where did we get complex decision-making process, how can we remember, how can we even blare voices and music in our heads? To say it happened by 100% chance is like saying a tornado tore through a junkyard and formed a car!

[Edjarosu]

To say it happened by 100% chance is like saying a tornado tore through a junkyard and formed a car!

The universe is a big place. To me, the claims of God's existence that are made by Christians every day seem a billion times less likely than life forming over millenia on this little rock where we live.

[Count Bleck]

To say it happened by 100% chance is like saying a tornado tore through a junkyard and formed a car!

The universe is a big place. To me, the claims of God's existence that are made by Christians every day seem a billion times less likely than life forming over millenia on this little rock where we live.

But where did the matter originally come from for the Earth and all other planets to be made? Where? Gases, matter, it can't come from nothing.

[LordTyroxx]

I do believe in God. A lot of my discussion can be found here
http://gonintendo.com/messageboards/vie ... php?t=2679
because I don't think it is necessary to copy/paste points to another discussion. They wouldn't fit in here, but read it anyway.

I believe this because the entire everything had to be created by something and nothing was there to collide. (except God's hands?)

I do believe God started evolution and the big bang, but that's just me.

So having two infinitesimally tiny particles which have always existed is a less likely scenario than a big man in the sky who created you and everyone you see...

Wiki definition of God: (that is embarrassing)

God is generally regarded as the sole creator of the universe.

Did it say it was any kind of living, breathing, creature floating in the universe?
For all this topic is about, God could be this and have a spiritual and omnipotent nature. (you never know)
[img=mini]http://www.universetoday.com/am/uploads/2005-1110spitzer-full.jpg[/img]

[Edjarosu]

Did it say it was any kind of living, breathing, creature floating in the universe?

Of course, that was a simplistic version of God. (And either way, it wouldn't be breathing out in the universe, unless it has some need to breathe nothingness). I've considered the possibility that God is just a neutral sort of onlooker, but listen to the way the devout talk about it. "God's watching you." "God sees everything." "You may be able to fool me, but you can't fool God." It's obvious that the majority do, in fact, see him as some kind of authority figure, sitting up there and throwing thunderbolts down at the evil.

2. But where did the matter originally come from for the Earth and all other planets to be made? Where? Gases, matter, it can't come from nothing.

How can you use that argument, and then turn right back around and say that God has always existed?

[Buster B. Tuna]

To have so many different religions and so many different galaxy's where I would say other life exist who may even have their own religion,I really don't see it possible that god exist.I was always allowed to make my own decision about religion and didn't have it pushed on to me so guess I really don't believe any of them.If there is life after death I guess I will find out when I die.If god exist I will find out when I die,I can wait.I don't really feel the need to know now.

[Bjorna]

Second time my post has been blocked. Of course, the Christian's voice is always drowned out. Ed, you answer my question first. Then I'll answer yours. If your 'japes' can pass by moderation and my simple beliefs are deleted, there's something wrong here.

I'm sure there's a reason why the posts were deleted. like for instance if you go off topic like I do now, or if you post to many back and forth posts. (cort doesn't like those posts)

@Edjarosu: It is true what you say, one can't proove that God exsists, nor can you deny/disproove Gods exsistance. I can agree that it is wrong to use 'God has always exsisted' as a proof of Gods existance. What he should have used is: God created himself. Then the proof would be exactly like the big bang theory, which according to someone created itself.

[Count Bleck]

To have so many different religions and so many different galaxy's where I would say other life exist who may even have their own religion,I really don't see it possible that god exist.I was always allowed to make my own decision about religion and didn't have it pushed on to me so guess I really don't believe any of them.If there is life after death I guess I will find out when I die.If god exist I will find out when I die,I can wait.I don't really feel the need to know now.

To say that there could be other life where other aliens have other religons is 100% assumption, and you do realize that it's a more urgent matter than nought. You NEVER know when you'll die. Never. By freak accident, or other things that I have no interest in describing. And if there is life after death, you have no idea whether you're going some good, or somewhere really, really bad.

<< mod comment: it's true... "conversation posting" (back and forth like an IM or talking to someone directly or in a private matter like an email) is not tolerated on the boards, please conduct such conversation--"japes" and all--in those media. THAT's why your post was removed. and for the record, everyone gets the same equal treatment through the moderation lens, so don't bother whining or screaming about persecution, especially calling into question the integrity of the moderation team and other members, it'll make you very unpopular in our otherwise friendly community. please see the board rules or PM a mod with any other questions. thanks! --cortjezter >>

[pizzaface]

i believe in God. its hard for me to believe that our sophisticated bodies just happen to form together over billions of years. you really can't prove if God exists or if evolution exists. it all takes faith and just believing. but if you take a step back and think about how complicated and sophisticated our world is... its hard to imagine that this just happened by accident.

i voted yes, i believe in God

[Bjorna]

I think we can all agree that either God exsist or we don't know if he exsists. No one can say that God doesn't exsist. To say that is an absolute statement, and to make an absolute statement you need to know everything about that subject. It's like saying there's no Gold in Hungary.

To make that statement one has to check under every rock, every tree, inside every mountain, inside every hungarian mouth to check if there is any Gold there. No one have all that knowledge about hungary to make that statement. And the same thing applies to the statement that God doesn't exsists. One would have to know everything about the universe, everything that has been stated by people, everything about all the animals and all the plants on earth, everything about all the rocks, you get the idea. What one should say instead of "God does not exsist" is "Based on what I know, God doesn't exsist". By saying this, you don't know if there's a God, and that makes you an agnostic.

What I have just 'prooven' is that there are no such things as atheists. So those 3 people who have voted 'No' does either have all the knowledge in the universe, and can therefore answer all the questions one would ask them. Or they have voted the wrong option.

just my 0.02$

[Nintend()\/\/|\|312]

Wow, looks like hardly anybody is confiding their faith in the awesome power of Chuck Norris.

Anywho, I would like to put forth another question that kind of stems from the current one somewhat. Where is "God?" The ancient Greeks thought most of their Gods resided on the top of Mt. Olympus, Christians believe that God chiefly resides in Heaven which they believe, or at least believed, was somewhere in Earth's upper atmosphere, although their God is kind of supposed to be everywhere. I think a couple North American Native cultures believed spirits resided in nature.

And another question which is fundamental to the previous two is: What is "God?" Is she/he/it made of regular matter we see in the universe, maybe a form of dark matter or not even matter at all? Is God like a force field of some sort, or maybe made of something so exotic that humans could never really observe it at all or maybe not even be able to comprehend what "God" is due to our own psycological limitations? Is "God" made out of Chuck Norris?

[NintendoWiiForever]

i believe that there is something higher then us...but it has nothing to do with creating us.

our complete evolution from ape to human has been charted and makes complete sense.
we had no defenses when the trees in africa stared to disappear...so we started to walk up right and began scavenging meat from the kills of other animals...and as every one knows...protien is what builds brains...so if we could not kill the animals we would out smart them.
think about it, apes are not designed to fight other creature except maybe other apes...and it you take away there only defense all you have left is brains.

i higher being exists but didn't create us....a chemical reaction involving volcanic gasses and lighting did.

oh yeah and i haven't read what any one else has said because i don't want to get mad or hurt others feelings but
if you say evolution is not proven or anything...it has been proven and only the ignorant would think otherwise
not a personal attack against any one

[Count Bleck]

And another question which is fundamental to the previous two is: What is "God?" Is she/he/it made of regular matter we see in the universe, maybe a form of dark matter or not even matter at all? Is God like a force field of some sort, or maybe made of something so exotic that humans could never really observe it at all or maybe not even be able to comprehend what "God" is due to our own psycological limitations? Is "God" made out of Chuck Norris?

We'd only know that when we die, but we have clues, that is, if you're looking in the Bible. Oftentimes He's described as a pillar of fire and a pillar of cloud, Moses saw him for 0.01 second and his face shone in light literally, he had to wear a veil so others weren't...well, freaked out. Another way God is described is sitting on his throne in Heaven and 'Having the appearance of jasper and sardius stone' or something like that.

"our complete evolution from ape to human has been charted and makes complete sense."

Except for the complete and utter lack of a single true transitional fossil. If it really did occur, there would be loads and loads and loads of transitional fossils.

[NintendoWiiForever]

we do have alot of fossil records and they have all been put into groups...
"loads and loads and loads" is alittle too many....
if evolution exists (evidence: virus and bacteria mutation. white moth becoomes black after industrial revoluition to hide it's self against dark sut covered trees. etc.)
and we have found creatures though time that continue to look more and more like humans then then here we are....
i don't think it is smart to think when the earth was made and then bam! humans were there....
we would be much more advance if it did happen like that