Does "God" Exist?

[SteveC1990]

evolution has not been proven! most scientist believe this therefore evolution is called "Darwins THEORY of evolution". Once scientists have found something to be proven it is called a LAW for example "Hookes LAW"...

Anyhow... i believe there is a God... but every one is entitled to their opinion.

Also did the moths change? or was it a certain type of moth that survived as they were more camoflagued (sp) than the lighter ones against soot covered trees... leaving more darker moths to breed??? because then they didnt really evolve???

[dbroad]

No the moths changed, there is an experiment taking place on a pacific island that is to do with whether evolution occurs. They found an island with a lizard that they believed to be adaptive, when they started changing the ecosystem by adding a new predator which hunted on the ground the lizard evolved its legs so it could more easily reside in trees. But back to the moths as the level of pollution has gone down in britain (the main focal point of the moths) the moths have started reverting to the pale wings if it was due to breeding then the pale winged moths would of become extinct in the 100yr gap between the darkening and lightening of the wings. We also have many samples of the moths where you can see the lightening process. Evolution can be good or bad but survival weeds out the bad ones hence Darwins theory of natural selection, even complex components like eyes can be evolved(a fox with better night vision will be more successful than one without) while it would take a while the improvements would become the norm and then be improved upon. I'm agnostic as science explains most things but we can only see in 3 dimensions whilst living in 4 so a being could exist on a higher dimension.

[Zachalmighty]

I beleive humanity is god. Let me refer to something I like to say alot.

We created god and thus god created us. We made god when we first sat down to write the values that all of humanity shares. We made god in the constitution, we made god in the bible, we make god with every single thing we do out of kindness everyday.

God is our conscous's and our good decision, god is essentially the code word for a set of values we have.

the god people pray to gives us nothing, it is only through our hard work that we get what we need and want. So im going to connect that the the religious saying "God helps those who helps themselves". Its true because through our hard work and good decisions we, "god" help ourselves and sometimes we, "god" help others around us. In both ways that sentence is true.

[Count Bleck]

"we do have alot of fossil records and they have all been put into groups...
"loads and loads and loads" is alittle too many...."

Transitional fossils. Not fossils, we have plenty of those. As in a fossil of one creature evolving into another slowly over millions of years, if it were true, we would have loads of transitional fossils.

"if evolution exists (evidence: virus and bacteria mutation. white moth becoomes black after industrial revoluition to hide it's self against dark sut covered trees. etc.)"

There IS a thing called microevolution. And creatures change to suit their environment, they don't evolve. As in you walk outside one fall morning and it's cold, but you soon get used to it.

"and we have found creatures though time that continue to look more and more like humans then then here we are...."

You mean apes? Yes, they are similar. But take a very old airplane compared to the modern day traveling airplane. Today's airplane is advanced, but it still has characteristics of the old plane...wings, cockpit, wheels. But are they the same things? No.

"i don't think it is smart to think when the earth was made and then bam! humans were there....
we would be much more advance if it did happen like that"

We were advanced, perfect even. But then sin was to enter the world and the perfection was lost.

[cortjezter]

heh.. compare an airplane to an airplane and they're not both airplanes? how odd.

anyway, organisms don't change to survive, they survive because of it. once someone can intelligently and scientifically answer that--to themselves--evolution makes sense.

but does evolution mean 'no god'? i'm not sure how or why it ever gained that connotation, but why can't both creationism and evolutionism co-exist? it IS possible that a god created the world and indeed the remainder of the universe with the idea of evolution in mind. especially if there was intended 'free will', it's bound that things willing freely will change over time.

the 'we created god' theory is interesting, to say the least... i'm mostly interested in where our ideals of what is right and wrong come from and everyone agrees upon if nobody was there to instruct the first person? personally, i think conscience is something that comes from the fear we each have of people doing things to us. you don't want to be killed? suddenly murder is on the list of 'evils'. i really, seriously enjoy the exploration of ideas big and small, sane or totally out there.

[Commie Mario]

well I do believe in myself so I'm afraid I'd have to answer yes to the believe in god question

[Count Bleck]

"heh.. compare an airplane to an airplane and they're not both airplanes? how odd."

Newer airplanes have aisles, food, televisions in the headrests, while the older planes pretty much only have a single cockpit, wings, etc. Like apes and man. Apes are the older plane, we're the newer plane. And the older plane certainly didn't evolve, no, it was designed. Just like apes and humans. It's logical. If there's a painting, there's a painter.

"anyway, organisms don't change to survive, they survive because of it. once someone can intelligently and scientifically answer that--to themselves--evolution makes sense."

To be honest, I'm no scientist but I am a thinker. And I think God made every creature to fit it's environment. Look up the spadefoot toad if you have time. It lives in extremely harsh conditions and is made perfect for them in reproduction, it's too much of a coincidence to say that this creature evolved all these instincts by chance. Unless all the abilities, instincts, and timing of the toad's reproductive cycle were in place, the toads could have never survived the FIRST severe season.

"the 'we created god' theory is interesting, to say the least... i'm mostly interested in where our ideals of what is right and wrong come from and everyone agrees upon if nobody was there to instruct the first person? personally, i think conscience is something that comes from the fear we each have of people doing things to us. you don't want to be killed? suddenly murder is on the list of 'evils'. i really, seriously enjoy the exploration of ideas big and small, sane or totally out there."

I can respect that, but right and wrong doesn't come from ourselves, it comes from our consience (if that's however you spell it) and our internal sense of right and wrong.

[NintendoWiiForever]

sigh.
let me first start with how things were created....who says there has to be a beginning? beginnings and endings are all human made. everyone thinks that there must be a beginning and an end and thats were people get all messed up.
i believe that god could have created a big bang...im not going into it right now though

now about evolution creating creatures and not god
i have not other way to explain to ignorant people. (this meanness says in this topic i like you outside of here )

if evolution did not happen then your saying every species has been the same since the beginning of time.
how the hell did cows co-exist with any dinosaur?....
how did any modern day species exist with dinosaurs?
why did dinosaurs begin growing feathers?
how come we have never found any modern day creatures that date back as far as prehistoric creatures?
...what caused dinosaurs to die out and every other creature today live?
the world as we know it was much different then it was. Africa was a giant forest and now it is a desert...
how in gods name did any forest creature survive the change from forest to desert?...
they are all specially adapted for the desert so how could they live in a forest?

To be honest, I'm no scientist but I am a thinker. And I think God made every creature to fit it's environment. Look up the spadefoot toad if you have time. It lives in extremely harsh conditions and is made perfect for them in reproduction, it's too much of a coincidence to say that this creature evolved all these instincts by chance. Unless all the abilities, instincts, and timing of the toad's reproductive cycle were in place, the toads could have never survived the FIRST severe season.

evolution does not happen buy chance. it happens because a creature needs to survive and it changes accordingly...there is not coincidences in evolution. you also seem to think that earth changes fast. what ever happened to cause to to evolve like that happened slowly. or maybe it was living as a different creature before hand and new condition brought it to be what it is today...you need to understand evolution a little bit better (not an insult) it is not like im going to grow fur in one day just because it is cold...i will eventually if i need to to survive.

have any of you notice that there is different kinds of humans?
black, white, etc. (im not going to name them all) did god create all these different kind of humans?...or did evolution change them to adapt to there environment... black people have dark skin because in Africa there is so much sun light that they don't need that much vitamin D and the dark skin helped repel it. white guys have white skin because Africans went up north and there was less vitamin D so they developed white skin to suck up more of it. they also became more hairy because it was hella cold.


if evolution happens on a smaller level then how come little changes cannot add up over time to create something entirely new?
and viruses do evolve...they evolve so much that they can become immune to cures and crap like that....if it continues changing to adapted eventually it will be a much different creature then was...and that is modern science.

im not saying god doesn't exist though...im saying that all religions are wrong and evolution did happen whether you like it or not.

one final question
how is it possible for us to have found a time line of 12 different species of fossil each looking more like human and less like ape and each advancing more and more in intelligence and tools?

my closing statement
it is impossible for all species past and present to have survived this long while keeping the same forms on this ever changing earth.

if you can explain with reason these questions i bow down in front of you and praise you and what ever god you believe

[Zachalmighty]

sigh.
let me first start with how things were created....who says there has to be a beginning? beginnings and endings are all human made. everyone thinks that there must be a beginning and an end and thats were people get all messed up.

Let me just say that there is always a beginning, because without one the basics fundaments of life are thrown off. That being the cycles of nature and life. Things always have a beginning, you are born, you live, you die. The cycle repeats. But its a circle, and without having a beginning, when did things start?

Its important to know where something starts to know where it will end, or when its in the act of the cycle.

[Sinister Gaze]

sigh.
let me first start with how things were created....who says there has to be a beginning? beginnings and endings are all human made. everyone thinks that there must be a beginning and an end and thats were people get all messed up.
i believe that god could have created a big bang...im not going into it right now though

I was just browsing around, and thought I'd say: There actually has to be a beginning scientifically speaking. Since all things tend towards natural disorder, there had to be a starting point for all energy to begin winding down to a lower energy state.
EDIT: Oops...Zach beat me to the post.

Just clarifying. But I myself believe in God.

[Zachalmighty]

sigh.
let me first start with how things were created....who says there has to be a beginning? beginnings and endings are all human made. everyone thinks that there must be a beginning and an end and thats were people get all messed up.
i believe that god could have created a big bang...im not going into it right now though

I was just browsing around, and thought I'd say: There actually has to be a beginning scientifically speaking. Since all things tend towards natural disorder, there had to be a starting point for all energy to begin winding down to a lower energy state.

Just clarifying. But I myself believe in God.

Thanks for the restatement of what I just wrote, but i myself dont beleive in god as created by the major religions.

[NintendoWiiForever]

see! you guys still think there needs to be a beginning and end...
...my birth was not my beginning...only thoughts have a beginning and an end
before i was born i was sperm and before them i was food water and other minerals and crap like that....and they have existed for....we don't know but say there is a beginning is only human and both of you just proved it.

[Zachalmighty]

see! you guys still think there needs to be a beginning and end.....my birth was not my beginning...only thoughts have a beginning and an end
before i was born i was sperm and before them i was food water and other minerals and crap like that....and they have existed for....we don't know but say there is a beginning is only human and both of you just proved it.

"You" number 1 refers to a consciousness. Since you where not born yet the sperm is not "you" the beginning of "you" was your birth. When your body started to gather memories and events that shaped your personality.

[NintendoWiiForever]

the atoms that im made of have existed for...well a really long time...your thinking to much like a human
how about we stop arguing about that and have someone try to solve my other questions

[Sinister Gaze]

the atoms that im made of have existed for...well a really long time...your thinking to much like a human

Erm...like I said. If the universe had no beginning, I couldn't imagen an infinite energy level winding to 0 potential. It just doesn't make sense.
Unless you could explain how infinity can run down to zero, it's illogical.

I've been in these arguments before, and I don't feel like jumping into another one that just runs in circles. Although I like the discussion...

[nhillyer]

I don't have any religion (don't need anyone to give me a set of guidelines to believe) but you have to be painfully ignorant to believe that some sort of creator or god does not exist.

Or you could just be a 16 year old emo trying to fit in with his/her angsty friends

p.s. Organized religion is the biggest farce ever created by humankind. The American govt comes in a close second.

[Bjorna]

the atoms that im made of have existed for...well a really long time...your thinking to much like a human
how about we stop arguing about that and have someone try to solve my other questions

So what you're basically saying is that that bread you ate yesterday used to be your crap?

[NintendoWiiForever]

Bjorna
yes 100%!
that is a fact or science! atoms never go away unless they are turned into energy (atom bombs)

and nhillyer thats exactly how i feel....expect for the emo part

sinister gaze im not really saying there is so beginning or end im saying it is impossible to tell whether or not it is true so humans assume it is.
it would be impossible for someone to explain because somethings cannot be explained with science...that thing is called "god"
even Einstein said that there is things we could never possibly comprehend...something where our science breaks down.

[Mike]

Voted yes. I believe that science doesn't NEGATE the possibility of a supreme being; it EXPLAINS how said being does things. So it's acceptable in quite a few religions to believe in God AND accept evolution at the same time. This belief would be that God set evolution in motion. Also the Big Bang.

Hey, Jerry Falwell died today. Where is your God now?!

Saying you're welcome.

p.s. Organized religion is the biggest farce ever created by humankind. The American govt comes in a close second.

I believe that both of these STARTED with good intentions and BECAME corrupt over time because of specific higher-ups.

[thomas_a]

I said No.

Don't get me wrong. Everyday I am convinced there is some higher power looking upon our world and influencing it.

But do I believe in the Christian or Catholic god? Not at all.

It just does not make sense to me, thats all.

[dbroad]

Everything exists in potentia as without potential there can't be life or freewill, but more on this and how my post is about God in a minute. Intact skulls millons of years down in the soil records mean nothing as fossilisation is a process that only occurs in set conditions and non fossilised skeletons are usually destroyed by animals as they will be on the surface during decomposition instead of in the earth, nderwater environments are natural storage for almost everything as biological agents will not decompose thus meaning they won't fossilise, we have sea creature fossils due to continental drift bringing them up from the depths. Wild animals cannot co-exist if in the preence of other predatorial wild animals it is down to the first mandate of any creature which is to eat animals will do anything for food, the second mandate which is breeding would also cause problems meaning a biblical garden of eden cannot have existed with freewill as all animals would of have to have something imposed upon them to stop crossbreeding which is a breaking of freewill. Everything I am and ever will or have been already exists, in this universe with 11 dimensions the future and all possible futures has occured and the pasts that could of occured must exist as without them the universe cannot exist as it would not be able to achieve a stable state without having its own rules and principles of stability, this doesn't mean it is alive but more like an atom these changes would be caused by the higher dimensions thus making it seem as though something is guiding us. So in a sense yes there is a God who controls our futures and gets around freewill by altering the circumstances but at such a high dimensional level we can't detect it or the changes.
The world is only complex to the untrained eye, when you started to learn to read it looked complex but now you realise it isn't. Look at calculus to someone who doesn't know it it looks awful but in reality it isn't it has its own set of rules which once learnt make it simple. Think of how you used to see the world before you learnt more about it and how it works. Even the universe is simple once you learn about atoms, energy states and superposition. You first see it as complex and how it must be designed but then you learn the rules and processes behind it and realise it isn't complex just that you don't understand it with your current knowledge, me I look at something and then strive to understand it .
To believe in God for the hope and understanding of your place in the universe is a natural and honest belief which can resolve inner turmoil.
BUT to believe in God because of complexity is ignorance as if the whole world adopted that view then we would not have the level of understanding we have today it's like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[Mike]

I actually remember being taught that the flood was at least partially, if not totally, an old Hebrew folk tale, and that the Bible doesn't start using actual historical people until Abraham.

I could be wrong. That's just something I remember being told for some reason.

[SteveC1990]

em, NintendoWiiForever, you seem to treat the discovery channel like the bible! and if u say the bible isnt proof how can a tv program be proof? and you also say that scientists say something and therefore that is proof! many scientists in the past have claimed things like "THE EARTH IS THE CENTRE OF THE SOLAR SYSTEM", yet this is not true! just because a scientist says it doesnt mean its true

[Nintendo.Wii]

No not to me. My life hasn't been the best. I lost 4 of my dogs, 2 houses, and had to life in the south so to me no.

[dbroad]

What must be remembered is that up until 1800's he church controlled everything, Galileo discovered that the Earth orbited the Sun and was arrested and put under house arrest as a heretic. Unfortunately religion is once again trying to control science but this time we know more and can stop them. Heck believe in God for hope not because you don't understand what the heck is going on in the universe when science has the answers but only those with degrees can understand them. Wave-particle duality shouldn't exist in religous terms but oh wait it does. Look at my earlier comment to see why the Universe began and why it appears as though there is a God. Heck christianity said bikes would condemn us all when they were first introduced.