Koopzilla wrote:I can't really believe this is as big of an issue as it is. The fact is The only people native to this country are Native Americans. Nearly all of us had ancestors who came to this country so future generations could have a better life. Immigration is what makes this country great. We should be glad that we live in a country that others want to come to to better their lives. As for illeagal Immigrants I feel bad that they live in such horrible conditions that they feel the need to have to go to great lengths to sneak in the country. I have never known a single person in my whole life who's job has been taken by an illeagal immigrant. It's just a talking point for politicians to get people all riled up. I think they should go through the appropriate process to come here, but some are in such desperate situations that they simply can't. If you want to be angry at someone taking American jobs blame the companies that send the jobs to other countries. Or better yet be angry at the top 1% of people who run these companies and are sending the jobs to other countries and paying their workers as little as they possibly can because several million dollars a year is just not enough for them. I say let the non violent immigrants out of jail and throw these a-holes in there.
Sailing_Day wrote:Immigrating into the US legally is a huge time and money drain for people wishing to immigrate, and can be pretty much impossibe if you A) don't have family in the US or have an US citizen willing to marry you or B) aren't well educated and/or have an employer willing to help you transfer. If you do have either of those, fees can add up to thousands of US dollars and waiting times can add up to years. Do you think the typical poor Mexican dude looking to build a family somewhere safe and stable can afford either?
The situation now is very different from the immigration situation 75 years ago. Immigrants are so antagonized today that they can be reluctant and even outright refusing to assimilate. America's "melting pot" as always been spotty; ethnic groups always tend to stick together, because it makes them feel safer.
America's become so full of racist, nationalistic bigots that it partly makes me kind of glad (and sad at the same time) the government is so autocratic.
Sailing_Day wrote:Yes, there are similar laws around the world. But who do you think set that standard? There are other factors than the actual waiting times immigrants have to go through. Especially in Mexico, it can take up to a decade if you don't have any immediate family in the United States. This is because of the huge backlog of immigrants waiting to get processed, which is about ~1.3 Million. How many actually got admitted last year? Around ~70,000. Now, I'm not saying let everyone in, but you have that long of a waiting time, you can't throw your arms up in the air asking why you have an illegal immigration problem, and then continue to not do anything about it.
So you should just leave if you can't fit in? Most immigrants aren't here for a beer and a football game; they're here to make a living. They sure didn't wake up one day and thought, "Man! I love English and American customs!" The last thing is their mind is what some random person thinks about what they should or shouldn't do, because this is about getting better opportunities that you otherwise would not be able to find in a war-riddled Mexico.
I find it hard to name many reasons, other than white Americans being terrified of losing their identity or dominance, for being so rejecting of Mexican immigrants.
The closing comment was about people antagonizing illegal immigrants, not people disagreeing with illegal immigration. It's hard to get some damn perspective when you don't go through what they're going through. I got denied service at a post office once because some crazed redneck asked for my green card (And he just wouldn't have it when I told him I don't have or need one). Even just the other day, I was paying for a ticket for an incline ride when the guy asked for ID and then asked if I was a citizen (For a damn $2 ticket, right?). There's more racist idiots around than you would like to think.
It's completely unrealistic to think you can crack down on this when it's so large and widespread, and even more fatuous to think people would just turn around and leave if they can't find a job here. Their chances aren't any better back home! People who want to come will come, legal or not. Furthermore, you can't say it isn't a problem of the system when you're allowing only miniscule amounts of people come in from a nation infested by civil war (Which is, by the way, funded by the United States' massive appetite for illegal drugs).SEGAsbest wrote:I am glad you are not saying let everyone in, because no country should be expected to just allow people in without standards for who gets in and who doesn't, that and 1.3 million is a very large group of people. It'd be asinine to suggest the US should just allow anybody in. However our immigration problem isn't the fault of our current standards really, they are not ideal, but no immigration system is perfect and America's standards are easier to meet than most other first world nations.
Our illegal population could be resolved by simply cracking down on the employers of such individuals, with no jobs available to them the vast majority would return from whence they came.
Not fitting in is hardly the same thing as disrespecting a culture.SEGAsbest wrote:You shouldn't come if you cannot fit in. Pretty simple, I don't care what you are here for. If you want to move to another country, regardless of reasons, you need to respect established customs and culture. It is extremely rude to disrespect culture as a tourist, let alone a permanent resident.
Are you absolutely daft? What you said amounts to "Well we're racist because they'd be racist if we were in their position!" Well no shovel sherlock. Does that make it right? Humans all act the same when put in the same situation. Why do you think white nations are the ones with the immigration problems? Because they have the money, the jobs and the stability! Do you really want to move into a country full of civil war, or a country with terrible human rights records, or a country fuddled with political and police corruption? So when you victimize yourself because godforbid people try to find a good life anyway they can, it is you who should get off your ivory tower. You're not the only one with problems.SEGAsbest wrote:I hate these accusations, I don't support the racism that you speak of, I am not racist, but minorities are in no position to discuss how 'whites' are handling immigration. You know why? Because everybody is immigrating to historically 'white' nations in North America and Europe, nobody wants to immigrate to Mexico, nobody wants to immigrate to Ghana, nobody wants to immigrate to Chile. The only communities handling immigration anywhere near this scale are 'white' communities. We've never seen how hispanics, asians, or blacks react to this type of immigration in the modern era and if millions of Chinese moved into Mexico tomorrow you can bet they would encounter similar racism, so quit with the false sense of superiority and get off that ivory tower.
Don't flip things around, because it's completely different circumstances. We're talking about illegal immigration from Mexico into the US.SEGAsbest wrote:Furthermore, why is it okay for Japan's immigration system to be as tough as nails? Or for ultimate hypocrisy, since Mexico keeps coming up; Mexico doesn't allow illegal immigration and the US should? Mexico's immigration system isn't exactly perfect either, why is the US the focus?
This is the dying breath of your credibility. Why should anyone care about our biggest minority is going through? Hahahaha. Americans shouldn't care about other people's problems! After all, you've got food on your table, a roof over your head and people who care for you, tough luck to all those poor illegal immigrants! This view is precisely why there's so many problems. You forget that you're the lucky one for being born in a country where you have opportunity, and that most people don't have all your privileges. Anyhow, I'll see you in 25 years. This wave of immigration, legal or not, is changing the face of the US the same way the wave of immigration from a similarly war and poverty riddled Europe changed the face of the US nearly a century ago. You either flow with the change, or you throw a fit and try to find ways to stop it, and fail. Either way, things are changing.SEGAsbest wrote:I have not seen anybody be unreasonable in this thread about immigration, furthermore, I think the reasons many are antagonistic towards them is their refusal to follow our rules and laws, the fact that they pay less taxes, and often refuse to learn English/don't know it. It is fine for illegals to disagree with our immigration system, it is ours to alter and change though, not theirs. It isn't their nation if they are not legal citizens of it, even if they act like it, their current attitude that they should have influence over our political system is absolutely preposterous and the equivalent of me illegally entering Australia to protest that Government's censorship of certain websites when it isn't my fight to fight, nor my Government to (attempt to) influence.
Finally, lets' clear this up, Americans' don't need to understand or have perspective on what illegal aliens are going through as it isn't our responsibility to. It is their responsibility to follow our rules if they want to live here however.
Ezekiel Rage wrote:just a word here from someone thats not a US citizen.
i read all your comments, and i must say that while views differ, you all have one in common: in europe, most of you would be considered so far right wing that you risk going to jail. as a matter of fact, europeans are so far left winged, most americans despise us for being socialists and communists, althos we really are not :p
anyway, i would say that the thing with imigration lies, liek most things, in the intention.
WHY exactly do you come into this country?
in austria, we have a really big problem with muslims and people from africa, whic are drug dealers 90% of the time. that does not make all of them bad people obviously, but it raises the question, WHY do we need them and WHY do we even let them into our country.
we have a policy that if you are fleeing from war or something, the FIRST secure country has to take you in.
austria is surounded by secure countries only. in fact, if you want to imigrate to austria from africa, you have to go through at least two save countries to land here. most of them come from spain to france to italy to austria. why dont they stay in spain, france or italy? because their sole purpouse is it to come here, live from our money and sell their drugs to our kids.
and that is something i cant accept. if you need help, if you are willing to work here, live by our rules, then you are welcome, because frankly, in austria we need people like that. and ill be damned if ill say one bad word about those honest people. but for everyone else, i think we should put them into jail and throw them out whenw e have the chance.
also, austrian jail is like a 3star hotel in hungaray or poland-.-
SEGAsbest wrote:The argument that what happened 100 and 200 years ago should still be going on in the modern era simply doesn't hold water and is entirely unrealistic
aqpl3seeD wrote:Strengthening Mexico is in the best interests of the United States.
Oh, I think you should need to know at least basic English and a basic education to get in, this goes back to the issue of 'we can't let everyone in.' I just don't agree with needing at least a Master's degree (and a company willing to sponsor you) to be able to get in.Wiggymaster wrote:Though, Sailing_Day, I don't think that lack of education is a good excuse. Why should we allow people into this country who AREN'T well educated? I think a basic high school education comparable to what is offered here is fair to ask for (especially when what's offered over here is so low in standard compared to most other industrialized countries). We don't need any more unproductive citizens who can't spell cat or order food from McDonalds in English. Though they had an easier time than most people would today, my great grandparents still worked hard to get here, and that including learning English and plenty of other things.
Wiggymaster wrote:I only agree with this if - and I'm going to take a lot of flak for this - strengthening Mexico meant annexing Mexico.
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