Disc Capacity?

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Disc Capacity?

Postby CAPTAIN N » 17 Oct 2005 17:22

Right this a big topic for me and one i hope get discussed in a podcast, ever since nintendo went to a disc based system, I was in horror when i saw how much one gamecube disc can hold.

Now i'm not saying you need 9gb to make a superd game, however nintendo never gave the developers even the option.

Now wioth revo around the corner, should nintendo who i assume will be using the optical disc system, make sure that it has a large amount of storage space.

I reckon it should at least hold what a dvd can and maybe more?
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Postby tismatron » 17 Oct 2005 17:26

definitely,i'd go withj HD-DVD- but i dont see it happening..
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Postby Edjarosu » 17 Oct 2005 17:28

As far as I can remember, the issue of space never, ever came up once. That is, no developer said that they'd like to port something, but couldn't because of a limited disc capacity.
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Postby PsychoJones » 17 Oct 2005 17:41

With custom DVDs and Nintendo's compression software, disk space shouldn't be a problem.
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Postby CAPTAIN N » 17 Oct 2005 17:46

yes there was issues from developers, thq said that with there wwe games, they had cut back on sounds, quailty and intro screens, due to the limits of memory.

A 1.6gb compared to 4.5 gb is a big difference, I mean resident evil came on 2 discs.
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Postby hohez » 17 Oct 2005 18:30

Yeah but the fact that they made RE4 with 2 discs just shows there was a simple way around smaller capacity. If the developer let that be a hinderance then it's their own fault.
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Postby CAPTAIN N » 17 Oct 2005 18:41

but if that extra cost not good really and as user i would like my game to come one disc thank
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Postby b214 » 17 Oct 2005 19:50

don't get started with the graphics again. I'm just fine with gamecube graphics, would like better options, and more realistic movement
Call me at 1-800-bull@#$% when Sony knows how to make a system.
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Postby darkside » 17 Oct 2005 20:12

They actually have to put something good in all that extra space to make Blu-Ray worth it. You can bet most game developers will fill it with garbage.

I can see some potential for Blu-Ray, but as high as development costs are now I don't see many good 25GB games coming along.
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Postby hohez » 17 Oct 2005 20:16

I want games to look like games. I have enough of the real world as is. I play games to get away from it, not to just go to another one.

Snakes Nose actually collects boogers over time and you can pick them and use them to kill your enemies in super Ultr4 HD!!!!

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Postby cortjezter » 19 Oct 2005 10:14

i don't see blu-ray or hd-dvd being a viable format for games in the near future.. sure ps3 will support it, but as was said before.. that's a LOT of space to fill, and most developers will fill it with crap. the only thing i can think of that will fill it all are CG, pre-rendered video.. and with the power of consoles these days, real-time rendering is actually almost caught up to the pre-rendered versions... so what's the point? and MGS4 i've heard criticism that what's been shown of it and other ps3 games have only been pre-rendered images (which might be misleading consumers by misrepresenting the final products)... so the games may not actually look that good after all!

actual 3d animation files actually don't take up much space at all.. image maps and textures take up some, but not even close to 25 GB. i could do a simple character animation with basic textures, for a few MB, literally less than 5, and almost all of that would be in the texture maps.. that's mega- not giga-bytes. i for the life of me can't think of what they're going to fill that space with for games.

another thing is that disc capacity really has nothing to do with the quality of the graphics. disc rotation speed can affect how quickly info gets from it into the processors, but most games seem to preload levels into memory rather than stream the info... so again the disc doesn't mean much. come to think of it.. that much info to have to load into memory is going to SUCK for ps3's load times.

ok that's enough for now. my hands are tired from typing so bloody much ;)
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Postby Zidane » 19 Oct 2005 14:08

cortjezter wrote:i don't see blu-ray or hd-dvd being a viable format for games in the near future.. sure ps3 will support it, but as was said before.. that's a LOT of space to fill, and most developers will fill it with crap. the only thing i can think of that will fill it all are CG, pre-rendered video.. and with the power of consoles these days, real-time rendering is actually almost caught up to the pre-rendered versions... so what's the point? and MGS4 i've heard criticism that what's been shown of it and other ps3 games have only been pre-rendered images (which might be misleading consumers by misrepresenting the final products)... so the games may not actually look that good after all!

actual 3d animation files actually don't take up much space at all.. image maps and textures take up some, but not even close to 25 GB. i could do a simple character animation with basic textures, for a few MB, literally less than 5, and almost all of that would be in the texture maps.. that's mega- not giga-bytes. i for the life of me can't think of what they're going to fill that space with for games.

another thing is that disc capacity really has nothing to do with the quality of the graphics. disc rotation speed can affect how quickly info gets from it into the processors, but most games seem to preload levels into memory rather than stream the info... so again the disc doesn't mean much. come to think of it.. that much info to have to load into memory is going to SUCK for ps3's load times.

ok that's enough for now. my hands are tired from typing so bloody much ;)


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Postby cortjezter » 19 Oct 2005 15:23

lol.. i'm not sure that was the reaction i was going for zidane ;)
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Postby Zidane » 19 Oct 2005 17:32

cortjezter wrote:lol.. i'm not sure that was the reaction i was going for zidane ;)


You put me in a corner and bitch slapped me.
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Postby cortjezter » 19 Oct 2005 20:19

lol.. not my intention.. sorry man! i just think hoping that massive amounts of storage will allow a drastic improvement in games might leave you sort of underwhelmed when/if it doesn't deliver... and obviously i don't think storage contributes a whole lot to the quality of games.. the best you'd probably ever see out of more storage is crisper textures (since they wouldn't have to be compressed as much), but higher-res textures require a lot more horsepower to render... so again, at least graphically speaking, the weight lies on the system processor(s).

however.. maybe they could fill all that space with programming code.. and they'd need a small Matrix (yes, like the movie) to do that i think ;) heh
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Postby CAPTAIN N » 26 Oct 2005 10:00

DO you think more disc space would allow nintendo to make its classic games more epic, imagine zelda with superb cut scenes etc etc?
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Postby hohez » 26 Oct 2005 15:27

after seeing the footage of twilight, Cut scenes schmut scenes, do it in game and give me more game play.
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Postby Jaden » 26 Oct 2005 15:39

who wants a ton of cutscence...i play a video game for action....not for a movie....i could just go to the movie theater to watch a movie!!
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Postby Guest » 06 Nov 2005 08:58

I think sony are clever, they had bigger discs so that developers can say hey it mayub be hard to program ps3, however we don;t have to compress anything on the disk?
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Postby PsychoJones » 06 Nov 2005 20:46

Anonymous wrote:I think sony are clever, they had bigger discs so that developers can say hey it mayub be hard to program ps3, however we don;t have to compress anything on the disk?
The developers are saying something like that, however it goes more along the lines of "Hey, it may be hard to develop games for the PS3, but at least if we can break even we can celebrate."
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Postby b214 » 06 Nov 2005 21:52

The developers are mostly saying " Hey it will be hard to break even on the ps3 so lets not support that system"
Call me at 1-800-bull@#$% when Sony knows how to make a system.
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Postby Alamon » 07 Nov 2005 02:15

Hmmm...

Well, hang on. I think this is pretty important.

How has disc capacity increased over time?
The n64's capactiy was what? 15-35 meg?
PS1 was 700 meg.

PS2, Xbox are 5000 meg
GC is 1800 meg

First few ps2 games were around 500-700 meg...
They've slowly increased though, GoW was about 3.5gig?
Most ported games stick to around 1.8gig, not too big a surprise though.

So...
360, Rev will be 5 gig?
PS3 will be 50 gig...

50 gig is definately overkill atm, but it'll become pretty important later on I think. PS2's 5 gig was overkill in the beginning as well, but developers quickly filled it.

It really does seem that ps2 wants to be the 'exclusives' system.
- They've got a ridiculously complex machine whose code can't be ported.
- They'll have data capacity that no-one else can match.
- And they've got the strongest system for power.

Also, why bag MGS4? Because it's going to be like... the pinnacle of those 3 exclusivity aspects?
- the AI's going to be amazing apparently, making good use of the SPE's
- the textures and sound of the game will probably be astounding
- and to put all that together you'll need one helluva strong machine

I'm pumped about the Rev too... but MGS4 is something I just know will be done right.

Thoughts?
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Postby hohez » 07 Nov 2005 03:49

Yeah but having 50 gigs does much less to impact everything you listed, compared to say, the developer doing a good job. Developers don't need that space to do a good job, and I think if the PS3 is around for ten years, we will still never see a game make use of all of that space.
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Postby Alamon » 07 Nov 2005 06:39

^Alright, I'll give you that, I agree that it requires hardwork by the developers. And disc capacity is the least important factor in actually creating good graphics.

I suppose it'll just be flexibility for the developers. In the end it'll be interesting to see how this turns out...
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Postby -=Sci=- » 07 Nov 2005 07:31

How has disc capacity increased over time?
The n64's capactiy was what? 15-35 meg?
PS1 was 700 meg.


Why are you comparing the disc capacity of the N64 and the PS1 when the N64 doesn't use discs?
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