as started in the legend of ganondorf post in the comentts section, i want to bring the discussion further.
i stated there:
id say that ganondorf is a tragic figure. im pretty sure he sees himself not as evil, merly as the good guy that is misunderstood.
he never tries to be evil, he jsut wants to make the world his vision,because he thinks under his control, the world will be a beter place.
but he is filled with anger and fear, so much that it gets unbearable.
this is clearly shown in wind waker when he doesnt want to kill link and zelda. but after his dreams are shattered, his anger takes over.
i think his demonic side is just a purification of this anger. this is shown in the oracle games where ganon himself s just a vile beast without any mind whatsoever...
while moldyclay replied:
This is true and false.
Ganondorf in Ocarina of Time is just greedy (though insinuated as a result of their being outcast), and the two separate timelines lead into two different Ganondorfs with different feelings.
The Wind Waker Ganon has been imprisoned, seen his people and land get washed away by the sea, and has had a LOT of time to think. He is much wiser, has no intent on killing and is just upset and angry.
Twilight Princess Ganon never fought Link, and he got imprisoned where he wasn't alone and was still just savage.
Later Ganons are incomplete variations of the dark sides of Ganondorf and don't reflect him as a whole at all.
so i replied:
thats partially true.
im with you on the slipt ganon part. but i think the main characteristics stay the same.
you get this when you talk to various "evil" beings in ocarina of time. ingo for example. he praises ganondorf. so he true self was already there. youre right that wind waker ganon is wiser though.
also, i think that the ganon creature is his anger manifestation.
probably influenced by the shadows - what if ganon himself is a different being than ganondorf?
they could have split at one point in time.
what if ganondorf died in wind waker and all that remained was ganaon - in the underworld, trapped, until hundrets of years later, when the original zelda takes place...
my vision of a timeline places zelda1+2 as last games in the adult link timeline, while alttp+oaa/s and la are the alst games in the child timeline, and all thre star the same link. 4swords adventures happened in BOTH timelines, since vaati was sealed before the timeline split, thus was in both timelines...
so i want the discussion to continue here. this is a hot topic with all that cryptic messages the zelda games hold...
my personal version of the zelda timeline, with explanations:
the minish cap:
it obviously starts the legend, since eiji aonuma once said, that four swords is the first game. since minish cap shows the origins of both the four sword and vaati, its pretty obvious that this is the first game, and that the link here and in four swords is the same.
although zelda tells link that this is the four sword and that it holds vaati inside, link obviously knows that, since he was there. it could be argued that this game features a different link, bt i doubt that. also, its obviously next in timeline since aonuma-san places it before ocarina...
ocarina of time:
obviously ganondorfs origin. his true motivs are already shown here, since he tries to take over hyrule with the triforce. basicaly, parts of the backstory to a link to the apst happens here, also, the now famous and infamous timeline split occurs here, when zelda sends link back in time after the quest is over...
i continue with the child timeline, since majoras mask came out shortly after ocarina and it focuses on continuing that story. although an amazing game, and if you havent played it yet do so now, because you are missing out on one of the best examples of subtle and yet emotional and powerful story telling ever.
the back story tells us about the mirror of twilight, and ganondorfs sealing into the dark world, that fits really nicely into the backstory of four swords adventures and a link to the past. makes sense. also, this game features ganon as vile beast once more, like in the end of ocarina of time. but, since this enver happened in this timeline to this ganondorf, is his first transformation into the beast and thus, its rather animal like...
four swords adventures:
continues the dark mirror/mirror of twilight storyline. most people dont realize the huge connection between those stories. heck, dark links even appear in twilight princess. this definately has some connection. i place it after twilight princess because of the trident story, the item that alowed ganon to split from his human form ganondorf and become a sentient being.
i have the theory that, as of this point, ganon and ganondorf are no longer connected, but rather two different beings.
a link to the past:
well, my favourite zelda, and everyone who played it can understand why. but i dont love it for being the template to all whats to come, i love it for the mood. its the only game except majoras mask and maybe twilight princess to an extend, where the world is already doomed. where the real horror already started, you just dont realize it yet.
nothing is happy and shiny here, everyting is dark and moody. six of seven sages already captured. zelda within the enxt few hours. your uncle dying right now. what can a young 12 year old do?
it shows us alot of backstory we already know and some new stuff. also it has ganon as sentient being with his trident.
oracle of ages and seasons:
i put the games like this because then, if you play them in this style, you find the master sword in the lost woods, outside the map. probably because that section belongs already to hyrule. also, the opening ahs the triforce link found in alttp and twinrova is alive, because they havent been killed in ocarinas child timeline...
ganon here is a vile beast not capabl of thinking because his resurrection was not complete. also, the end shows link traveling into the open sea by boat, wich is obviously a reference to the opening in links awakening.
note: this resurrection would have needed a sacrefice, lie the one in zelda 2.
ancient stone tablets:
many do not consider this game canon, and i can see why, but i consider it canon, because it references links awakeing as just happening and has ganon trapped in the dark world. he is not really srong enough to cross to the light world. the resurrection in the oracle games may have failed, but it more or less worked enough to have ganon alive in the dark world...
well, we are at the end. i personally say, link never made it home from his journey...
four swords adventures:
i think this game happens here aswell because it fits. splits ganon from ganondorf, has vaati who is still sealed in this timeline and also introduces ganon for later games...
some unknown game:
lets say, that the events in the zelda 2 manual happened here. lets say that some evil befell hyrule and there was no hero. so, elda brother sets ut to find the triforceof courage. naturally zelda refuses to give the triforce to somebody whos not the famed hero of time. so she gets put in eternal slumber. when the gods flood hyrule, she is transfered to a new hyrule, a place somewhere behind the horizon...
here we have a flooded hyrule and a defined ganondorf. there is no sight of ganon anywhere. because they split earlier, as i mentioned. in the end, ganondorf dies with hyrule and leaves only ganon...
another gaiden story. probably playing in termina after the flood...
we dont know anything about story yet, so lets wait and see...
the original story in wich ganon finally dies. i think this plays in the adult timeline because of hyurles layout. in zelda 2 its obvious that hyrule from zelda1 is in the south of the hyrule of zelda 2. the towns named after the sages, no kakariko.. makes sense, nobody rememebrs what really happened before the flood. hyurle in zelda 2 shows islands aswell...
ganon is dead. link must kill shadow link. connects four swords adventures again. also, the back story to this game about the spell on princess zelda could fit into my theory abut hyrules flooding...
well, thats my theory...MOD NOTE: When creating new threads please use both the search feature and some manual browsing to make sure that there are no existing threads about the same thing. Also please do not double post. If you think of something to add later use the 'edit' key. Thanks. -thresholdXCI
will do, thanx