Wii U Must Support An Equivalent of Direct X 11/Open GL 4.2

[Hyawatta]

If you look up the specs for any next-generation game engine you will see that there is at least one thing they all have in common, Direct X 11/Open GL 4.2 support. The only other major commonality seems to be a focus on multiprocessor (around 20 processors) support. Rallying support for an equivalent of Direct X 11/Open GL 4.2 functionality is likely much more feasible than asking Nintendo to add a 20-core processor to the Wii U.

If the Wii U releases without support for an equivalent of DirectX 11/OpenGL 4.2, then it would be in a similar situation as the 3DS releasing without a second slide pad. Except I don't think an expansion would be able to fix it.

It seems fairly obvious that the next generation development efforts are based around DirectX 11/OpenGL 4.2 functionality (Feel free to include any engines that I may have left out):

Epic Games' Unreal Engine 4
id Software's id Tech 6
Crytek's CryENGINE 4
DICE's Frostbite 3
Techland's Chrome Engine 6
CD Projekt's RED Engine 2
Capcom's MT Framework 3
Square-Enix's Luminous Engine
Valve's Source Engine

I can’t emphasize enough how critical this is. As long as the Wii U can support DirectX 11/OpenGL 4.2 level functionality and features, it should be able to compete with the new systems that Microsoft and Sony will eventually release. Of course the Wii U can run ports of games developed for the PS3 and 360, but the Wii U's ability to run the next-gen engines, at their full capability, will secure its position as a viable console for developers to release their future multiplatform games onto during the upcoming generation of consoles.

If the Wii U can handle the next-gen game engines that require a DirectX 11/OpenGL 4.2 level of functionality and features, then it will enjoy the multiplatform support that the PS3 and 360 had. If the Wii U cannot run the next-gen engines, then it will suffer from having a similar level of multiplatform support that the Wii had.

[gtt]

It really does need to be a dx11 part. but at the moment they are going with a 4890, which is only a dx10.1 chip. I fear once the new sony/ms systems come out as dx11 or 12 machines the multiplatform releases will stop.

[ddddd]

I wish I worked at nintendo... So I could find the guy who thought of giving the wiiu a 2008 card and send him to clean bathrooms instead.

[gtt]

I wish I worked at nintendo... So I could find the guy who thought of giving the wiiu a 2008 card and send him to clean bathrooms instead.

for them it is a cost issue. but I'm sure they could get a deal on 5000 or 6000 series chips from amd if they were going to buy 10 million of them just to start. But I think they are being penny wise and pound foolish by skimping on this system. The low power casual thing just isn't going to bring in an audience big enough anymore. Time to dip into the warchest and go balls to the wall with the U. Throw in a 500gb hd, a evergreen chip from amd, a quad core cpu, 4 gb of ram, build a real online system, the works. put both the wiipad and a regular controller in the box, make the name something less confusing, beat sony and ms to the punch by two years. done. no risk, no reward.

[Darth Vader]

I wish I worked at nintendo... So I could find the guy who thought of giving the wiiu a 2008 card and send him to clean bathrooms instead.

why do that, when its ten times easier to wait a few years after the thing releases and then blame developers for not being gung-ho to develop on outdated hardware instead? Plus you'd be among good company around here.

although I do think the Wii U is going to be seeing that problem a lot less than the Wii did, since this time the hardware isn't pathetically hopelessly outdated. I'm no expert on this but it can't be that hard to make a multiplatform game built for both DX10 and DX11. PC games mayne

[Mako]

for them it is a cost issue. but I'm sure they could get a deal on 5000 or 6000 series chips from amd if they were going to buy 10 million of them just to start. But I think they are being penny wise and pound foolish by skimping on this system. The low power casual thing just isn't going to bring in an audience big enough anymore. Time to dip into the warchest and go balls to the wall with the U. Throw in a 500gb hd, a evergreen chip from amd, a quad core cpu, 4 gb of ram, build a real online system, the works. put both the wiipad and a regular controller in the box, make the name something less confusing, beat sony and ms to the punch by two years. done. no risk, no reward.

That would be amazing, but it is unlike Nintendo to ever do something like that. They want to make things as cheap as possible to get as much profit as possible. However, they have vast amounts of money coming off of Wii and DS. They can afford to take a few risks and sell at a loss. That is what we are seeing with 3DS. Who knows, maybe Nintendo will surprise us in a good way for once. (Not that everything they do is bad, by any means...)

[ddddd]

why do that, when its ten times easier to wait a few years after the thing releases and then blame developers for not being gung-ho to develop on outdated hardware instead? Plus you'd be among good company around here.

I see what you did there.

although I do think the Wii U is going to be seeing that problem a lot less than the Wii did, since this time the hardware isn't pathetically hopelessly outdated. I'm no expert on this but it can't be that hard to make a multiplatform game built for both DX10 and DX11. PC games mayne

Im no expert either. My fear is not about the difference between DX10 and DX11, because for what Ive read, is not that much. My fear is the difference between DX10 and DX12 or 13 and if those will be significant enough to be just one of the reasons why the wiiu will lose third party support by 2014. It doesn't even have massive support by now.

[FatFace83]

I wish I worked at nintendo... So I could find the guy who thought of giving the wiiu a 2008 card and send him to clean bathrooms instead.

But didn't Nintendo go out there way to make sure the GameCube was a powerful little number? and yet it's sales were the worst for a Nintendo home console.

Obviously Nintendo wasn't in any position to create something as powerful as the Xbox 360 & PS3 around the time of the Wii's release, besides the fact that they only sell consoles and games, they can't rely on other stock to claw back any losses, such as Microsoft & Sony.

Hopefully the Wii U will be powerful enough to make it's mark but Nintendo have to make a good profit on it, if the system is too expensive it simply will not sell.

[KingBroly]

Yes, but the Cube had 2 major flaws for it being a Nintendo piece of hardware:

- Optical Disc Space was way too small (1.5gb v. 4-9gb of PS2/Xbox)
- No Uniqueness compared to the other consoles

[ddddd]

I seriously need to work on my english if that post was confused with the wii era

Btw, the cube lacked multimedia capabilities as well, so it had the least chances to get picked compared to the xboxps2. Capabilities that the wii lacked (and likely wiiu will as well) only because nintendo didnt wanted to pay some dollars to get a dvd or real player license since the hardware is perfectly good for media playback.

[FatFace83]

I seriously need to work on my english if that post was confused with the wii era

Btw, the cube lacked multimedia capabilities as well, so it had the least chances to get picked compared to the xboxps2. Capabilities that the wii lacked (and likely wiiu will as well) only because nintendo didnt wanted to pay some dollars to get a dvd or real player license since the hardware is perfectly good for media playback.

Your english was fine, it was my reading that wasn't.
I'm ok about the Wii having no multimedia capabilities, the same with the Wii U. I guess it's because I already have a DVD player and they can be picked up for very cheap now, I understand at the time of the Cube they wasn't. sometimes I like a console to be just that, knowing what it's good at from the core. my brother bought a PS3 purely on the fact that it was cheaper to purchase that at the time then to buy a Blu-ray player. so in that respect I can see how having other capabilities it can help to sell a product. but I think with Nintendo it's different, they do things their way. sometimes not always good but I enjoy their games a hell of a lot.

[gtt]

Yes, but the Cube had 2 major flaws for it being a Nintendo piece of hardware:

- Optical Disc Space was way too small (1.5gb v. 4-9gb of PS2/Xbox)
- No Uniqueness compared to the other consoles

that and it was a purple lunch box. which doesn't matter to me, but a lot of so called hardcore gamers are... how shall we say... a tad insecure, and unfortunately that is the audience you needed(at the time) in the start to have widespread appeal.

and it didn't play dvds. which was huge in the success of the ps2.

[LegendofZelda1996]

Besides the tessellation and little more detail on the models and the shadows, I believe that DirectX 11 doesn't improve drastically over DirectX 10. (http://gizmodo.com/5368037/directx-101- ... difference)

And Nintendo never uses DirectX on their consoles since DirectX is made by Microsoft and it is used specifically for the XBOX and the PCs (http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/631516-wii-u/59413886), but they do make their own API which could be pretty close to DirectX 11 or OpenGL 4.2 though I would highly doubt that.

[gtt]

Besides the tessellation and little more detail on the models and the shadows, I believe that DirectX 11 doesn't improve drastically over DirectX 10. (http://gizmodo.com/5368037/directx-101- ... difference)

And Nintendo never uses DirectX on their consoles since DirectX is made by Microsoft and it is used specifically for the XBOX and the PCs (http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/631516-wii-u/59413886), but they do make their own API which could be pretty close to DirectX 11 or OpenGL 4.2 though I would highly doubt that.

Call thw api whatever you want. Games will be developed with a certain feature set. And the graphics chips are built support the features of the dominat api, which is directx. Its important for ease of porting that hardware has a certain feature set. This doomed 3rd party support for the wii as much as anything else.

[TANK]

Ms have had a good start in the console industry and pushed sony 3rd Nintendo have to be careful not to get pushed back 2nd or 3rd because ninty got to cocky thinking what ever they can get away with the ninty fan will buy attitude,
Ms will expliot that for me its important that ninty have loads of ram in the wii u other wise there'll look like 360/ps3 games with no leap compared to their next gen games that people will rush out to get one at a phenomal rate.

Nintendo need to make the right decision.

[LegendofZelda1996]

Personally, I find it funny that people are assuming that the Wii U will be a complete failure by the time the so called XBOX 720 and the PlayStation 4 is released, because both the XBOX 720 and the PlayStation 4 is more powerful than the Wii U, therefore, the Wii U will be a complete failure.

The Game Boy, the PlayStation 1, PlayStation 2, the Nintendo DS and the Wii were the weakest consoles in their gens, yet they sold more than the competing consoles in their gens. The Wii is considered by many "hardcore gamers" as one of the most crappiest consoles of all time, but no one can deny that the Wii sold more than its competing consoles did.

[TANK]

Personally, I find it funny that people are assuming that the Wii U will be a complete failure by the time the so called XBOX 720 and the PlayStation 4 is released, because both the XBOX 720 and the PlayStation 4 is more powerful than the Wii U, therefore, the Wii U will be a complete failure.

The Game Boy, the PlayStation 1, PlayStation 2, the Nintendo DS and the Wii were the weakest consoles in their gens, yet they sold more than the competing consoles in their gens. The Wii is considered by many "hardcore gamers" as one of the most crappiest consoles of all time, but no one can deny that the Wii sold more than its competing consoles did.

ill buy one day one and a photo to prove it,but you know what nothing lasts forever things have a way of coming and going.Just because ninty had great wii sales doesnt mean it can net time around it can happen to the other 2 companys.
I would like Nintendo to release a Kinect type device it would add to the experience,i seen a tech demo with a kinect attached to a holographic device that projects an image or 3D images you can manipulate and even project images on to you hand(gloves or even a weapon could be added to your hands)i think this would be good if Ninty did this for there games.

[gbpackers31]

Besides the tessellation and little more detail on the models and the shadows, I believe that DirectX 11 doesn't improve drastically over DirectX 10. (http://gizmodo.com/5368037/directx-101- ... difference)

And Nintendo never uses DirectX on their consoles since DirectX is made by Microsoft and it is used specifically for the XBOX and the PCs (http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/631516-wii-u/59413886), but they do make their own API which could be pretty close to DirectX 11 or OpenGL 4.2 though I would highly doubt that.

Call thw api whatever you want. Games will be developed with a certain feature set. And the graphics chips are built support the features of the dominat api, which is directx. Its important for ease of porting that hardware has a certain feature set. This doomed 3rd party support for the wii as much as anything else.

Andddd everything DX11 does can be done on a "DX10.1 era card" such as what the devkits are using. Therefore, this topic is fairly pointless considering the Wii U will support all DX11 features... including tessellation.

[ddddd]

I doubt is that easy to do with the same performance of modern day cards. Otherwise directx11 wouldn't exist as it is now. Sorry, Id still send those guys to clean bathrooms... With very expensive products to boot.

[LegendofZelda1996]

I doubt is that easy to do with the same performance of modern day cards. Otherwise directx11 wouldn't exist as it is now. Sorry, Id still send those guys to clean bathrooms... With very expensive products to boot.

So, you're believe that having the most updated and powerful hardware on the Wii U (Example: 2011 GPUs, 2011 CPUs, 2011 RAMs, etc.) is more important than the affordability of the Wii U to the consumers?

Sony did just that with the PlayStation 3 with a price of $699.99 at launch and it backfired thus Sony had to do a price drop in order to get sales. I know that you think that having the most updated and powerful hardware on the Wii U over affordability is a risk that Nintendo should take, but to me, it's really unnecessary.

[ddddd]

The PS3 was very espensive only because they developed their own core, so they needed the money after that investment. Had they gone with a custom built one like other consoles they wouldnt have had that problem and still having a powerful machine (and perhaps with better programming results).
Is not that I WANT bleeding tech, developers want these things, and if you dont have them, then dont expect much support from them. And I want those games, and nintendo games.

[LegendofZelda1996]

Is not that I WANT bleeding tech, developers want these things, and if you dont have them, then dont expect much support from them.

Oh. Sorry for misunderstanding you.

And Avni Yerli, the president of Crytek (who made Crysis) was impressed with the specs of the Wii U calling them "very good," so I don't think that developer support is a problem. http://www.tomsguide.com/us/Wii-U-Avni- ... 12580.html

If someone from Crytek says that the Wii U is definitely impressive, developers would believe them.

[DrNeroCF]

I wish I worked at nintendo... So I could find the guy who thought of giving the wiiu a 2008 card and send him to clean bathrooms instead.

Why? I have a 4890, it blows the 360's 1950 out of the water, and most cards released today under 200 bucks are merely comparable in performance to the 4XXX line.

360 and PS3 only released with DX9 class support, yet they din't have any trouble out performing all DX10 cards when they were first released.

Oh, and Crysis on PC could be hacked to run in full quality, while only running in DX9. Ran faster, too.

The big new features with DX11? Running code on the card and hardware tessellation, both of which the 4890 can do just fine (though I hear their tessellation is sub par, but that could easily be fixed for the Wii U).

Bottom line is, when developers can code to the metal, you'll get results way ahead of the PC equivalent. I'd be very surprised if Wii U graphics don't look markedly better than a fully modded GTA IV.

[TANK]

I would wait and see,ive read a rumour that a nintendo(Japan)employee claimed nintg were gonna improve the spec.
Wait until E3.

[ddddd]

I wish I worked at nintendo... So I could find the guy who thought of giving the wiiu a 2008 card and send him to clean bathrooms instead.

Why? I have a 4890, it blows the 360's 1950 out of the water, and most cards released today under 200 bucks are merely comparable in performance to the 4XXX line.

360 and PS3 only released with DX9 class support, yet they din't have any trouble out performing all DX10 cards when they were first released.

Oh, and Crysis on PC could be hacked to run in full quality, while only running in DX9. Ran faster, too.

The big new features with DX11? Running code on the card and hardware tessellation, both of which the 4890 can do just fine (though I hear their tessellation is sub par, but that could easily be fixed for the Wii U).

Bottom line is, when developers can code to the metal, you'll get results way ahead of the PC equivalent. I'd be very surprised if Wii U graphics don't look markedly better than a fully modded GTA IV.

I would expect a nice amount of performance boost at the least between tech from three years ago and recent one.
I don't see why they can't pick a newer one (not latest), customize it so it uses 28nm and go with it so the system can live its 5 or 6 year cycle without worrying about being left in the dark once again.