It's definitely possible but I still don't think there are two different timelines at the end of SS. My reason for thinking this is because in SS Link, Zelda, and Groose are sent forward in time when the statue has already fallen after the defeat of Demise. In OoT, Zelda tries to send Link back in time to regain all the lost time he spent while searching for the spiritual stones (before anything happens). Ugh, I hurt my head. As for the symbol of the triforce with loftwings, it's probably something as simple as a design choice that Nintendo didn't think up until later on in the series life. Although, there may have been a similiar design in ALttP, I can't remember. And yes, it definitely is possible that there are other characters with similar looks. I just think that picture of the fishing guy in TP is the same as the guy in OoT.
Hopefully, that made sense.
MasterofMonsters is super awesome! I lost a bet. Hehe!
EricLeamen wrote:Anyone else having trouble when flying? My bird always ends up down in the clouds and I struggle gaining height. Am I doing something wrong? It's taken me a good half hour before just to get back to Skyloft because I can't get high enough to reach it. Help?
swing the Wiimote up, then down, in one motion. It'll make the lofting flap his wings once and it raises your elevation.
Edit: (Forgot to post what I originally wanted to lol)
I'm now about 22 hrs in at the 4th dungeon I believe:
Spoiler:
In Faron Woods going to get the 1st Flame. I've already got the whip, and on my way to try to obtain the master key
I just browsed through the last 2 pages or so of comments and here are a few of my thoughts on the game concerning a few things I saw:
The overworld: I don't mind it too much. While a map on screen would be nice, I think the light pillars are ok. Also, the turbo boosters also help getting places quickly.
Combat/Controls: They're very accurate to me. Sometimes too accurate as I lazily try to horizontal slice and it ends up diagonally as I slice more diagonal than horizontal lol. But lots of fun.
Swimming: Takes a while to get used to, but I'm happy with them.
Harp: While I didn't play Spirit Tracks, this one is pretty bad. Boring.
And a question for that last one:
Spoiler:
At the Goddess Walls, is the point to try to trace the symbol? I've seen three so far, and the first one, I received rupees. At the other two, I received hearts. Does it matter on accuracy of tracing it for what you receive? Or am I completely missing the point of these?
Add me and i'll add you. PM me if you do. Brawl code: 4253 3144 4737 3DS: in profile
I thought it was really weird how much she flirts with link, but then I seen her husband and all was clear! I also love the "You really shouldn't open other peoples cupboards..."
I feel like I'm at a more crappy part of the game, after the third dungeon. Fetch quests and...
...(minor spoiler i guess)
Spoiler:
first silent realm. UGH. not as bad as TP, but then again, in TP at least you could see the bugs on the map. here, at least you can see the surroundings better, but it's stupid how it makes you run around and panic for no reason.
Burgers wrote:I feel like I'm at a more crappy part of the game, after the third dungeon. Fetch quests and...
...(minor spoiler i guess)
Spoiler:
first silent realm. UGH. not as bad as TP, but then again, in TP at least you could see the bugs on the map. here, at least you can see the surroundings better, but it's stupid how it makes you run around and panic for no reason.
Spoiler:
I think the silent realm is a HUGE improvement over the tears of light. I'm still not wild about it but at least it's somewhat entertaining. It's much better than searching in MASSIVE areas for those damn bugs. That was tedious and boring. The silent realm at least puts some pressure on you, and the pillars of light make the sacred tears easy enough to find without a map. For the first two it's a quick and easy part of the game. The third one is kinda BS though.
Please help me, I'm afraid the glitch has occured in my game:
Spoiler:
I've helped the whale and he told me to find the dragons, I remembered that the Goron in the Lanayru cave talked about the dragons so went to him and he talked to me, then I went in the new desert area but I didn't do anything else because I knew about the glitch (that should only occur after finding the thunderdragon). Then I went to the forest and Fi told me that something was happening and that I could go only to the 2 points near the Sealed Grounds: but the Imprisoned didn't appear; I went to the volcano and it didn't erupt. Have I missed something or has the glitch occured?
edit: Ok, I've solved the problem. Here's how I think it works:
Spoiler:
You can do only one of the song quests at the same time and talking to the goron starts the desert quest: so if you first talk to the goron then you can't start the forest and volcano quests until you complete the desert quest.
Then there's the glitch which makes possible to start the desert quest again talking to the goron but this time you won't be able to complete it because you already did, so you will be stuck if you didn't do the forest and volcano quests yet.
So for those that have finished the game, what's the verdict? Better than ocarina? better than twilight princess? Worst zelda? best zelda?
Whenever I try ordering the 3d zeldas from best to worst it just gives me a big headache. Do I choose twilight princess's incredible ending over wind wakers epic finale? Do I choose skyward sword's metroidish style (which I love) over twilight princess's superior overworld? Do I choose the best character in the series (midna) over probably the best level design in the series (skyward)? Do I choose majoras mask's unique world and great side quests over twilight princess's/skyward swords lengthy epic main quest? Do I hate wind wakers triforce quest more than collecting tears of light? Do I hate flying around in an empty overworld (skyward) more than making me get 100 items for those dam doors in ikana valley (majoras mask)? do i choose the tetra and underwater hyrule twist over everything to do with midna? I CAN'T DECIDE!!!!
so I'm just gonna say, ocarina of time is the best zelda game and best game of all time whilst Wind waker, twilight princess, skyward sword and majoras mask are equally as good as each other (and maybe a link to the past but I think thats slightly worse than all the 3d zeldas).
While I haven't exactly played Skyword Sword, I'm pretty sure it's gonna have the same problem I have with all the zelda games I've played; they have ideas that does and does not work.
motherbra1n wrote:So for those that have finished the game, what's the verdict?
Wind Waker is and will likely be my favorite for a very long time, Skyward Sword does not change that. I like it better than Twilight Princess though, not because I don't like TP, it's a fantastic game. However, I am one of those annoying fans who think TP wasn't very original and I also happen to be one of those annoying gamers who think innovation is everything. So, needless to say I like Skyward Sword better than Twilight Princess. Twilight Princess was an amazing experience, Skyward Sword just appeals more to my desire for something new. The Nintendo 64 games are classics for a reason, and take up the remaining spots behind Wind Waker. I'm just going to leave it at that because it'll get alot more difficult to figure out my preferences once I include the older games.
Two dungeons in. Hoping things get better, but so far feeling a lot of that special Zelda meh.
Stuff I am not crazy about:
-Nintendo really needs to start making Hard Mode for these games available right off the bat. Combat has so far been slightly better than previous installments, but at the end of the day, it still boils down to waiting for the enemy to invalidate 5-7 of 8 attack directions and then standing around waiting like an idiot for the player to slash from the 1-3 obvious remaining directions to break his stance. Not remotely difficult, just... different.
-Three extra hearts right off the bat? Really? :-/
-The game seems to think that going around without any shield or potions is a misunderstanding on my part. Yeah, Fi. Yeah, various Academy instructors. Yeah, various citizen NPCs. I know I am going into a place of 'great danger'. I know I can get those items from going to the bazaar and buying them from merchants. I know because you all freaked out and told me so several times before I entered the last dungeon. And the one before that, too. I get it.
-Good grief, the constant mollycoddling. I can turn off the ugly HUD, but I cannot turn off Fi constantly popping up in the corner to indicate she has a suggestion about whatever puzzle is currently around, or to indicate that Link is low on health and should replenish (apparently the one heart remaining, the constantly playing tone suggesting danger and urgency, and the fact that Link is flashing an angry red were not enough of a tip-off).
I have no problem with having the option available for game-breaking stuff like Dowsing and Fi's hints for people who want the game to explore its own environment and solve its own puzzles. On th other hand, I rather resent that I have to manually turn off the otherwise never-ending and annoying chime alert that indicates Dowsing targets are available, and I have to do so each time a new target is available (and with Fi explicitly telling the player each time as well because why not).
-Saying 'Press B to deploy parachute' and then automatically deploying it whether I do so or not.
-Unskippable tutorials. More annoyingly, unskippable tutorials that present themselves as if they are skippable. "Hey, do you want to hear a tutorial on how to do something pretty obvious?" "No." "Okay! I will just explain it anyway." guh
-Crazy incoherent Gamespot guy was basically and inadvertantly right about IR pointing being better than the gyro-centric set-up they have now. I can actually move the Wii remote so that it points at a different spot on the screen, but if I do not change tilt of my hand, the cursor will stay in place.
Moreover, I understand how and why he had his specific issues: whenever the player switches to anything using the first-person mode, the game registers the remote's current orientation as 'pointing at the center of the screen'. Which is fine, if the remote is actually doing that. If it is pointed at the floor, then the floor becomes center of the screen. At the ceiling, ceiling is the center. At the side, side is the center. Even with all the obnoxious hand-holding elsewhere in the game, it manages not to explain any of this beyond 'If you have issues with the aiming, point at the center and re-calibrate!' Which is precisely what the guy did. And which has never been a problem with a purely IR-based approach.
There also appears to be some kind of latency so that it feels like I have to drag the cursor to where I want it to be, which may or may not be related to the gyro/IR issue (Epic Mickey was IR and I believe had the same problem) but is mildly annoying either way.
This sort of decision makes me kind of sad, since pointing has always been the most precise, reliable, and intuitive feature of the Wii's motion controls (particularly when the gyro is used as a back-up for off-screen tracking). Why take something that has the capacity to work perfectly and then instead opt for a massive retrogression?
-Enemy design is for the most part lol.
-Gaining entrance to dungeons has so far boiled down to the game saying "Hey, find X number of Y and come back!" Nintendo, you are so much better than this. Please tell me this is going to change as the game goes on, and by that I mean right now.
-There has so far been no real sense of accomplishment or progression.
Spoiler:
In MM, by this point I had already cleared the condemned monkey of kidnapping the princess, removed the poison from the swamp, ended winter in Snowfall, and freed half of the Terminan Giants from their prisons. In TP, I had saved two towns from creeping Twilight, collected a pair of fused shadows for Midna's purposes, and rescued the Goron leader from a magical curse. In WW, I had found two of the goddess pearls, helped out the bird people by removing the giant spider from that dragon's tail, stopped a bunch of creatures from beating up/killing the Great Deku Tree, and saved that little tree dude who had been eaten by that giant plant.
In SS, I have saved a different kind of little tree dude from being beaten up/killed by a gang of monsters and... uh... yeah, I got nothin' else. And that was not even related to killing a boss or anything. The reward for completing the two dungeons on the immediate-level is literally 'Sorry, Link, your Princess is in another castle -- here is a map on how to get there', delivered via figure-skating.
ffs.
-The second boss is not particularly-well-done. Kind of like how Nintendo loves using the same mechanic for most of its hookshot battles ("Pull big spherical weakpoint from over there to over here so you can stab it!"), 1998 wants its bomb strategy back.
-Despite actively searching Skytown or whatever the heck the place is called during the day and the night, I have found precious few finish-able sidequests.
-Flying the bird is zzzzzzz.
Stuff I like:
-Flying the bird has not been necessary for all that much.
-There was a very nicely-done sidequest earlier involving a character who we will call Mr. B. Way more of that, please.
-Art is quite pretty.
-Not one of the series's strong points as they are usually fairly forgettable in most Zelda games, but musical themes have been decent-to-good for the most part.
and dat orchestration
-The Beetle is enjoyable to utilize and has useful applications outside of dungeon-specific puzzles (like solving puzzles in other dungeons and scouting out areas for clues/hostiles in advance).
-The first boss was solid. Did not revolve around using the dungeon item and if the game had began with the real number of hearts to start-off-with, then there were a couple points where he would have nearly killed Link for once, which is much-appreciated.
-Outside of the pointing thing and one isolated incident with the nunchuk, motion controls have worked without issue and have been used in some fairly novel ways, knock on wood.
-Being able to choose Link's responses to various questions, even though it seems to have no real long-term effects on anything, provides him slightly more personality than his usual block-of-wood demeanor.
-Sword beam!!
-The stamina gauge mixes up things like movement, climbing, hanging onto stuff. A couple of segments have played much better with it than they ever would have with the old set-up. Hopefully they use it for deeper things as the game goes on.
-When the game does not auto-deploy the parachute and Link winds up face-planting = Never gets old.
-At the moment, the count stands at two memorable/likable NPCs, which is one more than Twilight Princess had in its entire run. A couple more show potential.
So yeah, not terrible, but praying to the Flying Spaghetti Monster that things start getting a lot better soon.
But the game does tell you how to re-calibrate. On multiple occasions, too. Do you want Fi to come out every 5 minutes and say 'Master, re-calibrate your controller' for you?
"But the game does tell you how to re-calibrate. "
Well, obviously. But the issue is not how to re-calibrate. The issue is that the game does not tell you the much more important piece of information: how to play without *needing* to re-calibrate in the first place. A single line at the beginning segment saying, 'Pro-tip: Center the Wii remote before using anything involving the first-person [or else you will have to recalibrate]' would clear up everything. And it would be much more helpful than most of the other unskippable advice that gets forced on the player, like 'Tilt the remote to the right to make your bird fly to the right'.
Or preferably, they could have avoided it entirely by just going with pure IR as in almost every single other game on the system and as in the basic start-up interface, where aiming re-calibration is never necessary because 'center of the screen' is always constant.
motherbra1n wrote:So for those that have finished the game, what's the verdict? Better than ocarina? better than twilight princess? Worst zelda? best zelda?
Ocarina of Time / Majora's Mask
A Link to the Past / Link's Awakening
Wind Waker / Skyward Sword
The Legend of Zelda / Adventure of Link / Twilight Princess
Oracle of Ages / Oracles of Seasons / Minish Cap / Phantom Hourglass / Spirit Tracks
Got the Water Dragon's Scale from the first Silent Realm and met the Water Dragon. God swimming underwater is a pain. I mean what the, using the Wii Remote to direct where to swim to? Completely unnecessary when there's a C-Stick for that. =<
1. Majora's Mask 2. Wind Waker 3. Skyward Sword 4. Ocarina of Time 5. The Minish Cap 6. Link's Awakening 7. A Link to the Past 8. Twilight Princess 9. Oracle of Ages/Seasons 10. Four Swords Adventures
Skyward Sword managed to be better than Ocarina of Time but not better than Wind Waker or Majora's Mask. I'm not sure anything will ever top those two.
I have just beat the boss of Laryanu (sp) desert - the one where you visit the sand area the second time.
MID-game spoilers:
Spoiler:
The sand sea was AWESOME. It was so surreal piloting a boat around a desert where only what is directly around you is actually ocean. I wasn't a fan of the loading between being on the boat and departing, though (I mean, Wind Waker loaded the whole freaking Forsaken Fortress when you sailed up to it, but the Shipyard required a loading screen?).
The ship dungeon in this area was really, really cool. I loved how it felt very interconnected, and you could travel directly from the top of the ship to the second basement floor without any loading. And how you could shoot arrows out of the basement to the deck. Some really clever puzzles here.
And needless to say, well, the boss was probably the best boss I've ever played in a Zelda title. Totally unexpected. I think just the buildup was good enough, having the octopus/squid reveal itself, then running out and finding you have to run back up out of the ship as it's falling apart/sinking. For some reason, I really enjoyed that (although I was wondering where my bird statue disappeared to as I ran out of the first room the boss revealed itself in).
Not looking forward to going back to the isle of songs, so I did a buncha sidequests first. I know I haven't mentioned this before, but Bateraux is awesome.
I finished the game last night. I'll admit, when I first started, I had my doubts (I felt a bit underwhelmed, like, "is this it?"), but I now love the game immensely. The story, gameplay, music, all incredible. I cried at the end, honestly, and while Twilight Princess came extremely close to moving me to tears, I can say that SS and OoT are the only Zeldas to make me cry. Of course, I've only played five of them to completion (say whut), but still.
I have to say, as a big fan of Alice in Wonderland, did anyone else feel like...
Spoiler:
Faron was pretty similar to the Red Queen from Through the Looking-Glass? Her calm rage and condescension (along with outright bitchiness at times) made me feel like I fell through the looking glass. After she flooded Faron Woods, which was a really dick move, incidentally, we've already more than proven that we're the Goddess's Chosen Hero, and yet she has the gall to make us gather up a bunch of tiny fish in order to receive her part of the song? And when she "asked" for the Skyview Temple's water when you first meet her? It all felt like the Red Queen telling Alice she was a pawn, and would have to move eight squares to become a queen, without ever expecting her to get there. Maybe I'm drawing too strange of a conclusion, but still, it was bizarre. Plus, she was the only dragon who made you do something simply for her own amusement; Eldin accidentally erupted the volcano and apologized for the trouble, Lanayru was nearly dead (or totally dead, as we saw when we first got there) and utterly needed the life fruit to survive, and Levias had been possessed by Bilocyte and had to recover before singing his part of the song (and just out of universe, his going last flows better overall). Needless to say, I really hated her.
Also, I'm sure I'm in a minority on this, but
Spoiler:
WANT FI BACK WANT FI BACK WANT FI BAAAACK! ;_;
@ Hamr: We're going to have to agree to disagree about the NPCs. I thought almost all of Twilight Princess's entire cast was memorable, whereas I thought the cast of Skyward Sword was flat (discounting the main characters, who were awesome). Only a few had enough personality to really care about, namely Gorko and Batreaux.
mock turtle wrote:@ Hamr: We're going to have to agree to disagree about the NPCs. I thought almost all of Twilight Princess's entire cast was memorable, whereas I thought the cast of Skyward Sword was flat (discounting the main characters, who were awesome). Only a few had enough personality to really care about, namely Gorko and Batreaux.
Spoiler:
Agreed. The way the game starts out makes you think that some of the NPCs would either be significant or at least have some character development in the game. They ended up being static and irrelevant. You would think that some of the people in Skyloft to express shock or outrage when Zelda goes missing rather than having a "Meh, she'll be fine" reaction. Pipit is a good example of that, but far and away the biggest disappointment was Gaepora. He really didn't do anything in the game. If they were going to put him in the game, they should have at least done something with him.
mock turtle wrote:@ Hamr: We're going to have to agree to disagree about the NPCs. I thought almost all of Twilight Princess's entire cast was memorable, whereas I thought the cast of Skyward Sword was flat (discounting the main characters, who were awesome). Only a few had enough personality to really care about, namely Gorko and Batreaux.
Spoiler:
Agreed. The way the game starts out makes you think that some of the NPCs would either be significant or at least have some character development in the game. They ended up being static and irrelevant. You would think that some of the people in Skyloft to express shock or outrage when Zelda goes missing rather than having a "Meh, she'll be fine" reaction. Pipit is a good example of that, but far and away the biggest disappointment was Gaepora. He really didn't do anything in the game. If they were going to put him in the game, they should have at least done something with him.
Spoiler:
Yeah, Gaebora was a huge disappointment. Not sure if this is a minority point of view again (since I actually like Navi, Tingle and Fi, who seem to be despised on the whole), but Kaepora Gaebora was one of my favorite characters in OoT, so the thought of seeing what was obviously his past life in Skyward Sword really excited me. I mean, yeah, there were a few moments where he played a relatively important role, but he was just another throwaway character and not worthy of his name. As Zelda's father, I can at least respect him, but that doesn't make up for the fact he's not very interesting.
Also, I define main characters for Skyward Sword as: Link, Fi, Zelda, Ghirahim, Impa, Groose, Demise, and maybe the dragons (one of whom I do not think highly of, but was still an interesting/memorable character from a writing standpoint). That having been said, upon further reflection the only other NPCs I thought were interesting, aside from Gorko and Batreaux, were Scrapper and Buccha. Scrapper's affection for Fi (and distaste for "Master Shortpants" Link) was hilarious, and Buccha reminded me of Winnie the Pooh for a couple reasons. The Mogma race in general was cool, but no one Mogma stands out to me.
As for the symbol of the triforce with loftwings, it's probably something as simple as a design choice that Nintendo didn't think up until later on in the series life. Although, there may have been a similiar design in ALttP, I can't remember. And yes, it definitely is possible that there are other characters with similar looks. I just think that picture of the fishing guy in TP is the same as the guy in OoT.
