The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

Postby Skull-Kid » 13 Dec 2011 18:48

Jirachi wrote:Btw does anyone think
Spoiler:
That demise looks like a tekken villian
?

Spoiler:
He looks like Akuma from Street Fighter:

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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

Postby Hamr » 14 Dec 2011 08:00

mock turtle wrote:We're going to have to agree to disagree about the NPCs. I thought almost all of Twilight Princess's entire cast was memorable, whereas I thought the cast of Skyward Sword was flat (discounting the main characters, who were awesome). Only a few had enough personality to really care about, namely Gorko and Batreaux.


Well, when I said two NPCs were worthwhile, I was referring specifically to Batreaux and Groose (I do not distinguish between 'Main characters' and 'Side-characters', as the significance of an NPC to the plot does not have much of an effect on how I regard them as characters). So it seems like you would agree with me about those two.

To them, I would now add Scrapper, for reasons that you went on to list, as well as the Gear-shop owner -- Pippin? His name escapes me at the moment. The way he gets all happy and animated when you approach his stall, looks all sad and dejected when you walk away, glares at you in irritation at night, and smiles at you in with sarcastic, barely-concealed contempt when you sell him treasure... that is a fairly decent range of expressivity and emotion, right there. The lovely art style helps out a ton here.



Anyway, I think I am... Five(?) Dungeons in. I kind of lost track after Link got the musical instrument and the pacing went from Extremely Iffy to What The Hell Were They Thinking. More on that later.

Dungeon design has gotten significantly better since the first pair, which were kind of simple and boring. The jump from them to the third dungeon was jarring, and I intend that in the most pleased way. To be fair, the dungeon item itself totally blew, and the pre-dungeon bit (same basic formula as the first two, which I was not a fan of) and boss fight (I beat it first try, without taking a single hit) that the level was sandwiched in between were thoroughly underwhelming -- but the dungeon itself was grand. A nice level gimmick and puzzles that had some nifty uses of previous(!) dungeon items.

Dungeon four was probably the most consistently-good one so far. The item it showcased is novel, has a lot of potential for puzzles, and the combination of the visuals/sound-effects/motion controls involved provide a real tactile oomph to using it that make it extremely enjoyable. The beetle's usefulness as a general tool make it the superior utility, but I would not be averse to a game based around using number 4. ITEM SPOILER
Spoiler:
To quote Devo by way of Mr. Gold and Mr. Silver: Whip it, good!
The boss was also solid. Visually interesting and imposing, based around item uses that while they may have been obvious were still relatively satisfying due to the nature of the item in question, for once involved a modicum of skill to beat, and had a good progression that I imagine was a callback to Galaxy 2's best battle.

So surprisingly decent level lay-out, good item, good boss fight. Being Zelda, feels like something is missing. Like some kind of catch or something.

*snap*

Oh, right. The worst dungeon lead-in of the game by far -- possibly of the entire franchise, but I am aware that that is a mighty big claim which warrants fairer consideration than a snap judgement. POST-THIRD-BOSS SPOILER
Spoiler:
I appreciate what they were trying to do in the immediate aftermath of yet ANOTHER Princess-In-Another-Castling of Link. A non-dungeon story-related boss fight? Link having a pre-emptive skirmish with apparently the main evil force of the game? You shall not pass? Conceptually, this is a strong move toward breaking ground on the whole 'Zelda formula' thing that people like me have been harping on for ages.

But a wannabe Shadow of the Colossus fight with even more obvious strategy and weak points (hit the big bulbous toes to make him fall down!) and even less challenge (chalk up another flawless victory) was not the correct way to go about it. Also, this feeds back into what I was saying earlier about feeling no sense of purpose or of Link doing anything of worth. Beating down and resealing an ancient unspeakable evil in theory should suffice, but the game makes a point of explaining that A. the seal is only temporary and B. it was only weakened at all due to Link screwing around with it in the first place. 'Thanks a lot for solving that problem that you simultaneously created, hero!'

also, if the goal is to escape the predictable formula, it would have been better served by plotline placement that deviated from the typical 'Third dungeon complete - Major plot event! - Goal shift!'

So no, not really digging that bit.
That things get worse from there, and significantly at that, is honestly kind of impressive.

Part of me suspects that development went like this: One designer said "Hey, wouldn't it be great if we took a page out of the first Ass Creed game and make it so that in order to access the next temple, you had to travel a long distance to an out-of-the-way location to get your directions (before having to travel all the way back)? We can put in more of Fi's oppressively-stupid dancing."

Another designer suggested, "Why not instead have unlocking temples involve segments where the gameplay shifts to a timed, vaguely-stealth oriented scavenger hunt of areas you have already been through?"

While yet a third piped up, "What if we get you to travel back to a previous area in search of a random, completely non-sensical item that relates to the most recent dungeon item?"

Then a final one responded, "No, no, we should have you journey back through an old, already-beaten temple to do it."

And then they looked to whoever was in charge to judge which idea was best, and that person thought a while and finally responded, "Yes," and put *all* of them in because Why not.

Individually, one of these things are specifically what I would call "good" ideas by any stretch of the word, but combining them into one massive, hours-long, grind-the-game-to-a-freakin'-halt before-dungeon segment is a failure that falls squarely into the "Catastrophic" category.

Literally the only good thing I can say about that is that they at least had the sense to get rid of those last two ideas for the part 5 (and I am guessing [HOPING] part 6) pre-dungeon bits.

-While not perfect (bleh @ learning songs, the Silent Realm, and an entirely-recycled boss fight), the part before number 5 was easily the best lead-in to a dungeon. Because they framed the objective in a manner different from locating different items, it played out instead like going through a series of discrete mini-dungeons, each with a unique feeling. Huuuge improvement, both over previous analogues in the game as well as in most other games in the franchise.

As mentioned earlier, well-designed dungeon, too. Several complex puzzles spanning across multiple rooms throughout the entire level, very nice aesthetic theme, the first creatively-designed mini-boss of the game, and was extremely well-integrated with the lead-up (and even with an older dungeon). Were it not for the game's weird habit telegraphing its dungeons by having cutscenes of the camera following Link as he enters them while ominous music plays, I would not even have realized I was in a dungeon until I saw the boss door. Nicely done.

Weak boss though. Looked kind of goofy, but more importantly suffered from the same sickness as #2. "Pay attention to the floor where attacks will come up from and move away from those places!" "Use dungeon-item to attack absurdly-blatant eyeball weak-point!" "Wail on the boss while it is stunned!" The poeticness of having this battle after a section involving time-warps is not lost on me, but I would still rather have to resort to a strategies that were not mined from over a decade ago.

-Ghirahim gets a lot of points for his theme and his psychotic little mannerisms, but (like Link) at the same time he has not really done all that much over the course of the game. POST FOURTH DUNGEON SPOILERS.
Spoiler:
In terms of pro-actively going out and doing evil things, the only thing I can list in his defense is wounding the Water Dragon to the point where she had to force herself into a rejuvenation tank.

Other than that, five dungeons in and I am not really impressed by the evil output. So far: He has sicced a couple of bosses on Link, failed to grab Zelda three times (two of which while she was literally in the room *right next to him*), and whined about not being able to resurrect his master yet while at the same time not-killing Link for some fairly flimsy reasons.

And then there was the bit where he knocked Impa down, Link slashed at him, he sidestepped out of the way and... nothing. Link says something to Impa. Impa gets up, jogs to Zelda who is something like thirty feet away, opens the dimension gate, readies some sort of magical grenade, and recites a couple paragraphs of expository dialogue. They enter the gate. Zelda says a tearful goodbye. Impa drops the grenade, the gate closes, and the grenade explodes, royally screwing up Ghirahim's plans.

Now let us consider: Throughout all of this, Ghirahim is apparently just dicking around off-screen while Link merely stands still with a determined look on his face. We do not see Link doing *a single thing* to actively fend him off, as we had seen Impa doing while Zelda tossed the harp over; Link's attention appears to be on the plot-significant dialogue of the people behind him; Ghirahim has (twice in the last thirty seconds) demonstrated the ability to jump twenty feet in the air, which would take him well over and past Link; and, oh yes, dude can freakin' teleport.

That seems to be taking the "If it's not in frame, it doesn't exist" mentality a little far.

Then, to top it off, once Zelda is gone, Ghirahim goes on about how he made a mistake in only sending other monsters after Link/letting Link live... then proceeds to simply shake his fist at him and then let him live. Again. And he talks about how the next time he sees Link he is going to kill him. For reals this time!

But oh, the next time we see him, he is just sitting around on top of a statue moping. And then... he sets another monster loose and leaves Link alive for a fourth time.

Obviously, expecting well-thought-out plots out of an EAD game is pure insanity, but even by Legend of Zelda standards, passing up so many clear chances to obtain one's goal and/or kill the main character is not the behavior of a strong, well-conceived villain.
-Did not mention this earlier, but the ability to move while in first-person is convenient as heck. Lots of potential for them to include some fights and puzzles that really take advantage of that mobility.

-Selecting items from the item wheel is fast and efficient. Calling it now: Best selection interface in the Zelda franchise, second-best of Zelda-esque games (Okami's is the first).

-Returning to an earlier point, the sense of accomplishment still not in the same league as other titles, but feeling more of it as the game goes on. POST FIFTH DUNGEON SPOILER
Spoiler:
Helped cure the Water dragon, freed the Skipper's crew, collected two out of three flames for the sword.
-The lack of warpability is downright obnoxious. Say I want to get from one end of the forest to the other. As tempting as it is to go off on a tangent about how amazing and stream-lined traversal was in Majora's Mask (golden standard), I am instead going to use Twilight Princess as the comparison: in that game, to get to that point without having to walk I would just open the map and select the pre-set point I wished to warp to. Bam, instantly there.

In Skyward Sword, to do that I have to: 1. Open the map.
2. Figure out where the nearest save point is.
3.Travel on foot to the save point.
4. Open the save point menu.
5. Select return to the sky.
6. Once in the sky, turn the bird around and fly back into the very pillar of light that just spit me out.
7. Select the pre-set point I wish to drop to.

this is not how civilized people design games

-Some sidequests finally opening up and giving that feeling of being nice and helping people out of jams.

Lastly, I forget: Was it on this site or another one where someone had a fit and went on about how the scorpion we saw in the game's E3 debut was, and I quote, "A mini-boss at best" after I said that it was pretty clearly a boss-boss? :lol:
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

Postby motherbra1n » 14 Dec 2011 09:34

Hamr, the bit about

Spoiler:
ghirahim not doing anything when impa and zelda were running away, link was standing between them, and I think Ghirahim is actually quite scared of link even though he covers it up with "I haven't got time kill you right now"


and i agree, that scorpion boss was downright pathetic
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

Postby Tingle » 14 Dec 2011 09:52

@Hamr

I'm expecting a serious rage post from you after you complete the 6th dungeon. Given all the stuff you've said you don't like about the game so far, you are going to to be furious when you have to do some of that nonsense.
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

Postby KingBroly » 14 Dec 2011 10:01

motherbra1n wrote:Hamr, the bit about

Spoiler:
ghirahim not doing anything when impa and zelda were running away, link was standing between them, and I think Ghirahim is actually quite scared of link even though he covers it up with "I haven't got time kill you right now"


and i agree, that scorpion boss was downright pathetic


It was the Demo Boss from the original demo. So...yeah.
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

Postby Hamr » 14 Dec 2011 21:55

motherbra1n wrote:Hamr, the bit about

Spoiler:
ghirahim not doing anything when impa and zelda were running away, link was standing between them, and I think Ghirahim is actually quite scared of link even though he covers it up with "I haven't got time kill you right now"

Spoiler:
So you are saying that beneath all the constant bluster he is secretly a coward?

Say, I rather like that interpretation of his character. It fits well with Aonuma's stated attempts to frame him as a subversion of the various expectations we have of the series's more traditional villains and goes a long way toward explaining the whole 0-for-4 thing. Nice catch there.
Spoiler:
Although it still does not explain why he did not just use his teleportation move to bypass Link entirely in that scene. I guess I can chalk that up to cutscenes simply not really being Nintendo's bag.
Tingle wrote:@Hamr

I'm expecting a serious rage post from you after you complete the 6th dungeon. Given all the stuff you've said you don't like about the game so far, you are going to to be furious when you have to do some of that nonsense.
And outraged and sick with anger?

(D-:)
Last edited by cortjezter on 16 Dec 2011 23:01, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: let's keep the illegal mods discussion and whatnot off of gonintendo...
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

Postby Autosaver » 16 Dec 2011 01:35

The Scorpion Boss was pretty cool, regardless of it being easy.
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

Postby Ngamer01 » 16 Dec 2011 16:26

I didn't get to finish dungeon 5 despite reaching it since I last gave a report on my progress. I hope to finish it up today.

Spoiler:
I need to reach generator 1 (I've already started generator 2) in hopes of freeing Skipper's crew from the brig.
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

Postby KingBroly » 16 Dec 2011 16:42

Hamr wrote:Edit: For those of you with legit game discs and modded systems, some new Ocarina codes just released. None quite as amazing as Classic Controller support for DKCR, but a lot of decent stuff there. Among the non-gamebreakers: Super fast text speed, ability to turn off Fi's constant whining about low batteries/health/shield charge/dowsing targets, turn off item notifications and explanations that reset every time you restart the system, toggle between hard mode and regular at will, and a three-heart health cap.

thank you based god


Nope. This is in no way whatsoever a suspicious post. No sir. Not.At.All.
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

Postby Autosaver » 18 Dec 2011 20:29

Nope, not suspicious. XD

Apparently, the timeline for the Zelda games is about to be revealed.
http://vgtribune.com/zelda-timeline-reveal/
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

Postby KingBroly » 18 Dec 2011 20:39

By the way, this Thread will become un-stickied on December 26th, 2011.
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

Postby Tingle » 19 Dec 2011 00:19

Autosaver wrote:Apparently, the timeline for the Zelda games is about to be revealed.
http://vgtribune.com/zelda-timeline-reveal/


That would take all the fun out of speculation.
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

Postby KingBroly » 19 Dec 2011 00:28

Here's the timeline: I got it off of the presses myself!

1986 - The Legend of Zelda
...
1998 - The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
...
2011: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

AMAZING!!!
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

Postby Ngamer01 » 19 Dec 2011 14:49

Well thanks to tech problems cutting my internet off, I ended up making good progress over the weekend.

Pre-dungeon 6:
Spoiler:
Beat dungeon 5, finished the third and final trial, did some side-quests, and I think I just unlocked the way to dungeon 6.
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

Postby nerdy916 » 21 Dec 2011 23:49

I love the one quote by Girham. I hope I spelled that right. The quote goes like this "There is one thing I'm lacking. Mostly Mercy!"
I HAVE FURY
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

Postby Ngamer01 » 22 Dec 2011 18:44

Well I made good progress since unlocking dungeon 6.

Spoiler:
I beat Ghirahim a second time for the Master Sword. I then fought the Imprisoned again and won after one game over. Next, I got the true form of the Master Sword unlocked. After that, I got my loftwing a new move (Spiral Charge) and I'm at the Lumpy Pumpkin to get more info on Levias.

Anyways the Imprisoned is Demise? Wow. Shocker. =V



Groose:
Spoiler:
He's still a douche even when helping during that second Imprisoned fight.
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

Postby thresholdXCI » 26 Dec 2011 14:11

Just got this game for Christmas, and wow. It's been a long time since I've fallen instantly in love with a game. Very impressed with the Motionplus gameplay (never used M+ before), but it's the characters though that have really blown me away. Maybe it's just me coming straight from playing Skyrim (a stunning world filled with completely insipid characters) but SS is incredibly charming. And that's with no voice acting in sight.

And the last time I stopped multiple times mid game and just sat listening to the music was SMG. Koji Kondo is an absolute genius. It's beautiful.

I'll post more as I really get sunk into the game.
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

Postby Veitch11 » 26 Dec 2011 17:40

Just thought I'd say that Peter Molyneux ranked this as his second favorite game of the year behind Minecraft...
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

Postby Hamr » 29 Dec 2011 00:36

Finally beat all the other games I was playing, grit my teeth, and mustered up the will to power on through to the end of this without any distractions. Never touched a shield or any potions, dowsed once (locating the moving ship), left equipment un-upgraded, and had a final death count of something like... four? Died a couple times figuring out how to kill the penultimate boss and once figuring out how to kill the last one (after which both became jokes who were fairly simple to no-damage). All Gratitude Crystals collected, and all heart pieces minus one nabbed -- the usual curse which, despite my best efforts, has managed to follow me through every single playthrough of every 3D Zelda. :lol: Anyway, general thoughts.

Good:
+Dungeons. Outside the bland first pair, this is easily some of the best dungeon design the series has ever seen. A lot of nice uses of items from prior dungeons, most of the items themselves were fairly interesting, and a lot of the level gimmicks, made for well-designed puzzles (special shout-out here to anything involving Timestones and to all the puzzles that, in the spirit of the best of the series, span across multiple rooms). Seriously impressive stuff. If the game were just dungeons, it would be easy to understand all the ridiculous praise it gets, because they are that good.
+NPCs. Groose, Batreaux, Scrapper, and Rupin are great. Ghirahim fills my heart with rainbows -- in retrospect, it would be wrong for me to fault him for the failure of the writers to find anything interesting to do with his character. Even if he does not have any real villainous acts, he has the personality, the lines, and the bossfights, so in the aggregate he comes out awesome. Kind of hope we see him in a future game, which means we probably will not.
+Bosses. Several stinkers aside (the scorpion, the two whose strategies were so Ocarina of Time-era that it hurt, the final boss), these were relatively strong overall -- particularly if we include the fights with the mini-bosses when they are not lazy affairs like 'fight a pair of regular enemies'. Unlike a lot of entries in the series, a couple battles even revolve around playing the game semi-skillfully instead of the usual '100% of the challenge is figuring out some (painfully obvious) way to damage the boss's junk.

Also, I was too hard on The I---------, earlier. As time goes on, the fight becomes more conceptually interesting, has some nice musical interplay, and it sets up some very decent character development.
+Visuals. I talked about this before, but it warrants repeating, this game is beautiful. The people who say otherwise (in particular, the ones that want to take us back to Twilight Princess's world of ugly textures, general brown-ness, and overuse of bloom) are certifiable.
+Music.

Meh:
+/-The SR. These parts would probably have been better as straight up chase sequences without the collecting bit. Avoiding the alerted Guardians is not a particularly difficult task, and in fact you can probably outrun them/dodge their attacks indefinitely as long as you do not do something silly like run out your dash meter. As such, these basically boil down to slightly-hurried collectathons. The only part of them that ever involved any real dread was triggering the Guardians. Not because the Guardians are scary or imposing or likely to kill Link, but because the game plays the exact same "OH NOES THESE GUISE ARE WAKING UP" cutscene transition every single time. I guess Nintendo thought the color scheme and music going all Silent-Hill were simply too subtle.
+/-The Boss Rush. This would be a plus but for two massive amateur-hour oversights. The first is that one boss fight is, for reasons beyond me, totally excluded. The war sequence (which is itself part of another boss fight that was included separately) is counted, but not an encounter with full-on boss subtitles and everything?

The second, much dumber bit is that the player receives different prizes depending on how many of the fights they beat in a row. The prizes range from rupees to treasures to rare treasures to heart pieces to actual equipment. Why is that so bad? Any time you choose to continue and go another round -- which is kind of the whole point of a boss rush -- you completely opt out of whatever prize is currently on offer. Beat the next round, you get another prize instead of and not in addition to the item in question.

You beat every fight in a row without dying or taking a break? Good for you, here is a bunch of rupees. Oh, you wanted one of those other, more useful prizes? Like that heart piece? Then you should have accepted it when I offered it to you in return for quitting at that specific moment, instead of fighting on like a champion. No, even though you just demonstrated you can beat every single encounter I throw at you, if you want *that* prize, you have to play through five or eight or however many of the fights in a row all over again and then intentionally tap out when I provide the option. Why? Because screw you, that's why.
+/- Moton controls. They work, mostly. Do they add enough to justify the game taking forever to come out? Nah. Left the game kind of wanting to just replay Red Steel 2.
+/-Combat: Apart from a few boss battles, the fighting system here is really not that improved from prior entries. Attacking from one or two specific directions out of eight requires more thought in how combat is approached, but Nintendo took that as an incentive to just slow everything down to a snail's pace. Even the second-to-last boss involves a bit where the enemy just stands there blocking with a weapon held in a certain direction, giving Link a ridiculously long window to carefully line up each slash. Not exactly difficult, just different. Usual Zelda level of challenge is in full play here, which is to say 'None'.

Bad:
-Pacing/Filler. Do not get me wrong: There is an extremely good game in here. The problem is that there are also equivalently two really really crummy games in here too, and they are all mixed together. Entering and going through a dungeon for the most part is such a wonderful experience, but then the dungeon ends, and the game kicks the player out for hours and hours on end. They try to mix things up with the pre-dungeon bits, and sometimes they even come up with non-dungeon sequences that are genuinely well-done. But for the most part? No. The ridiculous hoops involved in entering dungeon four was probably the closest I came to just pitching the game entirely. The game going Banjo-Kazooie with collecting 'Tadtones' or whatever was a distant second.
-Traversal. The bird might be my least favorite form of conveyance in the entire series (and I include the train in that assessment), and the sky does not present any kind of engaging world to move throughout. Having to fly to an otherwise-pointless out-of-the-way location to learn songs (each of which have only one use in the entire game) is ridiculous. And as I pointed out before, the warp system was conceived by a stupid person.
-Fi. There are just so many things wrong with Fi, it is hard to know where to start. I could talk about the hand-holding and how painfully intrusive Fi is throughout the entire game (I will defend the segment where Link's sword is temporaily unuseable as an amazing sequence purely for letting me progress without having to put up with her constant interruptions). I could talk about her creepy armless design and her creepier dance numbers. I could talk about how she has really only has one line repeated over and over again. But I will refrain because everyone else talks about those.

Instead, I am going to point out that there is this concept in writing, called 'character arcs'. Well-made main characters grow. They change. They develop. Despite liking him, Navi initially does not think much of Link's abilities but is convinced to help him anyway and has that bit in the final battle where she has to overcome Ganon's magic. The King of Red Lions starts out as a helpful figure, is revealed to have a dark backstory, and ultimately shuts you out of making an extremely complicated decision on the fate of the world. Tatl and Midna start out using Link entirely for their own ends but throughout learn to be less selfish. The Zelda team is generally good at this with Zelda characters, and even succeed on this front elsewhere in SS.

They fail with Fi. Fi does not have an arc. She has a line. Specifically, a completely straight one that flat-lines throughout the entire game, even as story events (the sword getting strengthened, memories of the Goddess being awakened) provide great-but-ultimately-squandered opportunities for character development. This is of course minus one comment in the last scene because someone at EAD thought that throwing a single line in at the last minute was somehow not honestly kind of insulting as writing goes.
-Way too many little annoying dumb design decisions. The molasses text speed, the constant 'new' item-notifications every time you restart, the dowsing alert, the low health alert, the low battery alert, the 'Fi wants to ruin whatever puzzle is currently available and for once is not triggering herself automatically' alert.... these are not things that should have passed QA testing. Okay, you want to market this game to casual gamers, which you seem to think means 'People who are going to eat the controller unless we constantly tell them not to'. Fine. At least include the option to turn that junk off on the off-chance that someone playing the game is *not* a moron.
-The story. They could have done with a lot less ‘clever’ references to all the other games in the series if it would have kept the plot in general from being so bland. Good prequels can be appreciated in their own right and stand alone. Bad prequels do nothing except set up previous entries, and they are consequently predictable. Apart from the first several dungeons (where basically nothing whatsoever happens), Skyward Sword's plot is this.

That is ignoring stuff like an end-game 'twist' involving a character that gets telegraphed from a mile away to anyone paying any attention, and from *four* miles away to anyone familiar with the 2D games. Not to mention the weird blips in the dialogue, like Ghirahim mentioning how dumb it was of him to ‘let Link go' twice when the real number is closer to six times, or another character speaking of the big bad being sealed for ‘eons’ after the game earlier establishes that at the point in time you are at, he was only just sealed. Or a comment to Link being made by a character and then later referenced in what is apparently a wholly separate alternate timeline where logically that comment could never have been made.
-Six hearts was definitely too many hearts to start. Apart from the balance issues, the reward for accomplishing way too many things that scream 'You were supposed to get a piece of heart for this originally!' winds up being worthless rupees.
-Sidequests. What is in the game is generally good, sometimes great (<3 Batreaux ), but there just are not enough of them. So many opportunities for moments that would make for amazing sidequests are ignored entirely (reuniting the Skipper with his family, getting the one guy to stop hogging the bath, doing something for the kid who wants a bug net, doing something to make that one woman stop cooking, bringing stuff from the sky down to the various NPCs on the ground, etc).

Overall judgement, game is slightly better than Windwaker; worse than Spirit Tracks.

Final Numerical Score: 11 "Yeah, Right"s out of 7 "You Think I Have A Deathwish?"s.
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

Postby the_nintendo_screw » 29 Dec 2011 09:19

@ Hamr "+/-The Boss Rush. This would be a plus but for two massive amateur-hour oversights. The first is that one boss fight is, for reasons beyond me, totally excluded. The war sequence (which is itself part of another boss fight that was included separately) is counted, but not an encounter with full-on boss subtitles and everything?"

What boss battle didn't get included in The Boss Rush? Also, did you play through on Hero Mode or was this your first playthrough? When you go back and play the game in Hero Mode, end bosses are made available.
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

Postby motherbra1n » 29 Dec 2011 10:36

just watched Yahtzee's review of this game again.

he's entitled to his own opinion and I do enjoy watching his videos, but good lord does he hate everything. I don't know if he's being serious about the things he complains about.

The main issue that he has is that "it's just a rehash of the legend of zelda".
I think people that say zelda hasnt changed at all since ocarina of time are being quite unfair, I can sort of see why they would say that but it seems to me like they are ignoring all the improvements and changes that nintendo have made (and yes there are a lot of them) and just want to say "OMG THERES A FIRE TEMPLE IN THIS GAME, BLATANT REHASH OF OOT)"

people that say zelda hasnt changed since 1986 I can't take seriously in the slightest.

I just don't understand why it's always nintendo that get the "stop rehashing your games" comments. I hardly ever see people (infact I've never seen people) say things like "konami stop rehashing metal gear/castlevania" "capcom stop rehashing megaman" "tecmo, stop rehashing ninja gaiden"
and I just don't get it. They've fiddled with the formula, they added an upgrade system, new items that weren't in any other zelda games, new minigames, they fiddled with the formula, they added a stamina meter, a shield meter and just completely changed the controls in general, and they still get "it's just a rehash of OOT/LoZ)

What are these people expecting, for zelda to turn into a first person shooter or any other genre? zelda is an action adventure and i want it to stay that way, I don't want it to turn into an RPG (I know it has RPG elements).

but it's just confusing as to why it's zelda that get's this "it's just a rehash" more than any other franchise, when it really isn't
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

Postby KingBroly » 29 Dec 2011 14:13

If Skyward Sword is a rehash of Ocarina of Time, then Other M is just a rehash of Super Metroid.

See how funny that is? It's so funny because it's untrue.

Here's some rehashes: Modern Warfare 3, Gears of War 3, Uncharted 3, Skyrim.

Skyward Sword isn't a rehash. I wish Zelda would ditch the partner and 3-starter dungeon crap though. It's been A LONG TIME since a Zelda game didn't have either of those.
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

Postby motherbra1n » 29 Dec 2011 19:14

KingBroly wrote:If Skyward Sword is a rehash of Ocarina of Time, then Other M is just a rehash of Super Metroid.

See how funny that is? It's so funny because it's untrue.

Here's some rehashes: Modern Warfare 3, Gears of War 3, Uncharted 3, Skyrim.

Skyward Sword isn't a rehash. I wish Zelda would ditch the partner and 3-starter dungeon crap though. It's been A LONG TIME since a Zelda game didn't have either of those.

wind waker KIND of didn't have that but yeah I agree.
but ditching a partner? I don't know how that would work, link doesn't talk so who's gonna do the talking for him, who's gonna give you hints or lead you in the right direction, even in metroid prime, the computer inside samus's suit spoke to you and led you the right way, and in a link to the past, sarahasala (to this day i still don't know how to spell or pronounce his name) was kind of your partner the way the king of red lions was in wind waker, just with a crappier way of communicating with you.

so yeah it would be weird but I'm not entirely against that idea, but I am against the idea of making link talk, or simply have the game itself talk to you (like when it's asking you if you want to save) as a way of replacing the partner.
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

Postby Hamr » 29 Dec 2011 21:20

re: Yahtzee: It is kind of important to remember that he has not even played most of the series, so when he makes claims like "they are all the same game", he is straight-up trolling you guys.
the_nintendo_screw wrote:What boss battle didn't get included in The Boss Rush?

Spoiler:
The fight with Levias the giant windfish thing and Bilocyte the parasite.
"When you go back and play the game in Hero Mode, end bosses are made available."

Spoiler:
It was not an end boss, though. You have to beat the fight in order to receive the Song of the Hero Quest, and you have to complete a portion of that quest in order to gain access to the boss rush in the first place.
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

Postby KingBroly » 29 Dec 2011 21:56

Well, you're actually wrong again. There's another Boss that gets unlocked for Hero Mode's Boss Rush as well...kinda obvious if you think about it.
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