Analysis: Skyward Sword proves that Zelda needs to evolve

[bellboy]

Let's find out what the jaded players who have lost their sense of wonder think about the new Legend of Zelda game!
- No like fly
- Plotholes bad in computer game
- No like fetching stuff
- cramps hurt wrist.
- It boring.
- It not dark
Thanks again "gamers." Insightful as always.

Plenty of legitimate complaints there. Just because you can turn a blind eye doesn't mean you're better than us, Super. No matter how you convince yourself otherwise.
Zelda doesn't need to change; it never has done.
The fact of the matter is liked SS before I knew anything about it. What I got was pretty but it felt half-assed.
I can't remember who said it but someone at Nintendo said it's no longer about how many dungeons there are. I initially agreed. SS proved how important dungeons are to the pacing of the game. Granted that's only one part of it all but SS had problems that no-one seems to be registering and now it's making me nervous. I'm not convinced we are ever going to get a great Zelda again. Why? Because they were so pleased with themselves with SS!

[Mirr0rR3flection]

Thats just great >_>, I come into this discussion to read comments and what do I find

Spoiler:

SPOILERS

.

I haven't played and beaten SS in so long so I guess its my fault...

[jasonmaivia]

@jasonmaivia I don't know if Retro could make a big zelda game by themselves. I also don't think that Nintendo EAD is getting out of shape. I think a better combination would be if Nintendo EAD would make the dungeons and boss fights and if monolith soft would make the worlds to travel in since Xenoblade shows that they have massive amounts of talent when it comes to world building.

I'd love to have those teams work together to make an awesome Wii U Zelda game.

About the rumor, some time ago, there was a rumor that Retro was working on a Zelda game with Skiek as the main character. It was only a rumor, but would have been nice if it had been true (and a good game).

[Devil_Rising]

Me personally, as I've said all along, what I want out of Zelda, is basically take what Twilight Princess did, but do it even BETTER, as TP took what OoT did, and did it better. Bigger, more, better. The only things I would really add, as I've also mentioned in the past, would be

A) Manual jumping. I just think it is an element that could add a lot to the Zelda formula in subtle ways, such as wall jumping, aerial fighting maneuvers, more precise platform jumping (such as over lava), etc. Doing just this simple thing could add a lot to the gameplay, as well as speed the action up a bit. Hey, it worked great in Zelda 2 and Link's Awakening.

B) Bring back a sort of "magic/level up" system, also similar to what Zelda 2 had. Adding some real rpg elements to Zelda certainly couldn't hurt, and it would add even more depth to what is already a great approach. And when I say "magic", I don't mean go crazy, but simple stuff, like Zelda 2 or ALttP had. Spells like that, with specific uses.


Those are the elements that I would add, but that's about it. Other than that, just the obvious things, better graphics, epic soundtrack, use the Wii U tablet screen as the item menu (NOT for controlling Link ala DS), NO tilt controls, huge, sprawling, organic world to explore. I thought Twilight Princess was basically the perfect 3D Zelda. But that doesn't mean they couldn't take that and still perfect it further.

[ridleysaria]

I liked Skyward Sword but it also didn't come close to being my favorite Zelda. The swordplay is awesome but I think Nintendo focused so much on it that they didn't give the care and attention to a lot of other elements. Things I didn't care for:

-The bland overworld. I imagined all the possibilities of flying around on that bird but none of them were realized.

- The re-use of the three major areas. Kind of removed a lot of the sense of wonder I get from exploring new places. Sure, there was a lot more to do in the three areas, but I would have preferred a larger, connected world.

-Upgrading equipment really didn't matter in the long run. It didn't take very long for me to max out every single upgrade. It never felt like I had to make any choices that had real impact. The decision of which shield to go with was made irrelevant once I got the magic shield.

-The inability to travel at night and the small number of things to do left me wondering why the hell they even bothered with day/night. I really get the feeling they wanted to do more with it and simply ran out of time.

-The three fights with the Imprisoned. I can't fully express how much I hated this. I might be able to tolerate repeated boss fights, but the imprisoned was frustrating and simply not fun. It's very strange, because every other boss fight in Skyward Sword was a big highlight.

-No voice acting. Yeah, I'm one of those people. Blow me.

-The graphics. I know there's a lot of people who love the watercolor blur effect but I thought it was ugly. I spent the first hour with Skyward Sword fiddling with my TV and the Wii's component cables because I was sure the game wasn't supposed to look that bad. Such a sinking feeling. Eventually I played the game on another TV, another Wii, and had to finally admit that the game just wasn't attractive.

Those are the big things that come to mind. I didn't totally hate the game or anything, I just think it came off as a weak entry in the series.

[bound_for_earthbound]

Pffffff. If anything, the series needs to go back to its roots.

No more of these story McGuffins ( Do not take that as "no more story" ...just dial it back to ALTTP/LA levels. OOT levels at the most. )
No more of this heavy focus on Puzzles that offer no negative consequences for failing to solve, that ultimately slow the game down ( again, do not take this as "no more puzzles" )
No more hand holding tutorials disguised as story Mc Guffins or side-kicks.
No more gimmicky transports.

Just focus on exploration, combat, and trap evasion like the original titles, and throw in some new items that serve a real purpose. You don't have to re-invent the wheel. Look at Mario, he's got the same platforming gameplay we all know and love, ( although there were some experiments in SM64 and SMS with open worldness ), with just a handful of new additions to keep things fresh. This is what Zelda needs to do.

[TSweirdo]

Meh... I think the Zelda series has evolved, just not as much as some people want. SS did change things up with motion controls as well as making it less overworld>dungeon>overworld>dungeon among other things. I guess some people just have different expectations.

[jasonmaivia]

Meh... I think the Zelda series has evolved, just not as much as some people want. SS did change things up with motion controls as well as making it less overworld>dungeon>overworld>dungeon among other things. I guess some people just have different expectations.

Often times, I get the feeling that Nintendo moves sideways more than they do forward, and Zelda was kinda one of those times. While you may feel that there were fewer times that you moved in and out of the dungeon and overworld, there really wasn't all that much to do outside of dungeons, and you revisit areas far too much.
I also thought that some of the older Zelda games were more fun, even though this game was still good.
I just hope that they do a lot better with Wii U.

[Jirachi]

Maybe zelda does need the evolve but this isn't the kind of evolution i want. It bad enough nintendo keeps ruining the exploration with methods of travel the archor you to said method of travel.
Now we have to put up with motion controls,why would anyone want to trade something that works perfectly(dual analogs) with something that fails to work the way it should at least 10% of the time?

It's like they took the phrase "if it ain't broke don't fix it" and made it "if it ain't broke,break it"

[NeroSuferoth]

They did change the ussual Zelda formula but I wouldn't call it "evolving" the series forward.

The upgrading system was a plus, but they didn't need to implement that flying gimmick to move around just to separate it from past games... The overworld/map to explore and roam around has always been a staple of Zelda, it's just that overtime it has lost its purpose to meaningless sidequests that bear no real reward.

I just want exploration to be a main feature of future Zelda games again, like in Zelda II and ALttP, along with an overwold that actually calls you to explore it.

[Devil_Rising]

I don't know dude. I wasted plenty of hours just messing around and exploring in TP. Not really sure what some are talking about saying it didn't have that. SS? Yeah...it DIDN'T have that. But TP had it in spades.

[NeroSuferoth]

Yeah, but how much of that was worth it? All there was to find was mostly rupees or, well, more ruppes.. And there wasn't even that much need to collect money in TP.

In ALttP you would break a wall and find the Ice Rod or fall down a hole and get the 1/2 magic spell, to name a few, same as Zelda II... There was an actual rewarding feeling to walk around exploring and the weapons and items you collected weren't just limited to the ones obtained by clearing dungeons.

Again, there was exploration to do in TP's overwold, but in the end it made me go "this is it?".. Maybe that's just me but that's pretty much all it takes to make comming Zelda games feel like Zelda to me.

[TSweirdo]

Meh... I think the Zelda series has evolved, just not as much as some people want. SS did change things up with motion controls as well as making it less overworld>dungeon>overworld>dungeon among other things. I guess some people just have different expectations.

Often times, I get the feeling that Nintendo moves sideways more than they do forward, and Zelda was kinda one of those times. While you may feel that there were fewer times that you moved in and out of the dungeon and overworld, there really wasn't all that much to do outside of dungeons, and you revisit areas far too much.
I also thought that some of the older Zelda games were more fun, even though this game was still good.
I just hope that they do a lot better with Wii U.

Really? I thought there was a good amount of stuff to do, like collecting stuff for upgrades, goddess cubes and side quests, I guess that was just enough for me. I thought this game just as much fun as previous ones but that's more personal taste then anything else. I'm sure they'll do much better on the Wii U since it'll have more power, so they can put more stuff in and implement it better.

[Devil_Rising]

Yeah, but how much of that was worth it? All there was to find was mostly rupees or, well, more ruppes.. And there wasn't even that much need to collect money in TP.

In ALttP you would break a wall and find the Ice Rod or fall down a hole and get the 1/2 magic spell, to name a few, same as Zelda II... There was an actual rewarding feeling to walk around exploring and the weapons and items you collected weren't just limited to the ones obtained by clearing dungeons.

Again, there was exploration to do in TP's overwold, but in the end it made me go "this is it?".. Maybe that's just me but that's pretty much all it takes to make comming Zelda games feel like Zelda to me.

To me personally? Maybe you're asking the wrong guy, because I thoroughly enjoyed messing around in TP. It was almost my favorite part of the game. Later in the game, after you clear out all the Twilight areas, and get everything open and accessible, there is quite a lot of hidden rooms, hidden rupees, heart pieces, mini-games, golden bugs, Poe ghosts, etc. There's plenty of exploring to do, I'd honestly say as much as in ALttP. I spent almost 80 hours in my first play through, on the GC version, and at LEAST half of that was just messing around and exploring time. I actually bothered to get the Magic Armor, and all four bottles, which proved to be extraordinarily useful in ONE place in particular, The Cave of Ordeals, another semi-secret, totally unnecessary area, which happens to get PISS HARD once you get into the late levels of it. One of the very last levels in particular, I don't remember which anymore, I actually needed the magic armor, and a s***ton of rupees to power it, just to get through the room. But it was satisfying as hell when I did get through it.

I had a blast playing the game, and it's the closest I think they've come in a 3D Zelda to what you were talking about. As great as Ocarina was, it was basically still just a small hub area that you went to other levels from. At least with TP, you did eventually have a huge world to explore, and actually could explore. I guess what I'm saying is...I liked it.

[Frank]

The Cave of Ordeals, another semi-secret, totally unnecessary area...

Just realised SS didn't have a Cave of Ordeals/Savage Labyrinth. Sad times It was great fun just coming across that in the desert in TP, or under a statue on Outset Island, completely miss-able and unsignposted was great fun. I wonder if that has anything to do with (what I perceived to be) the limited variety of enemies in SS. I don't know how the enemy count compares to other Zeldas, but SS mostly felt like it was all just different coloured bokoblins, occasionally punctuated by a moblin, lizalfos or stalfos.

Edit: just checked ZeldaWiki and they have 26 pages in the "Enemies in Skyward Sword" category, compared with 32 in Wind Waker's and 71(!) in Twilight Princess'.

As much as I enjoyed SS, and hope Zelda keeps some of the things it did right going forward (didn't yet mention the fact that the slingshot is actually useful this time! And how you use all of your items plenty of times outside the dungeon they're found in), the more I think about it, it's almost definitely my least favourite 3D Zelda. Not that anyone's asking, but: WW>MM>Oo=TP>SS. The sky in SS was hugely underutilised. I was really expecting something like WW, with islands that required actual exploration, as opposed to the 3 islands with anything remotely substantial to do on them, a handful of treasure chest islands, and a whole load of floating rocks.

[Jirachi]

@Devil_Rising this guy gets it. Miyamotto made the original zelda game because he wanted to capture the feeling he got exploring caves as a child,so why should zelda not only no longer focus on that idea but make that idea less fun?

I don't have a problem with changing the formula it just seemed like alttp,oot,tp and hell even majora's mask brought new ideas to the seris without abandoning the exploration part.

I'm not saying any zelda game is perfect even my favorite zelda game(tp) is not perfect but to me it does add new deas to the zelda seris(all though admittedly they are small changes) without ruining what makes zelda,zelda