Same-Sex

[Asad]

The fact that same-sex marriage is outlawed in many parts of a country that stresses the separation of church and state is rather inconsistent considering that the idea that marriage is between a man and a woman stems from religion. If the USA truly wants to live up to its standard of being a secular society it must grant full marriage rights to all of its citizens except those who lead alternative lifestyles which are demonstrably harmful to society (incestuous, interspecies, etc.). That homosexuals naturally cannot propagate the species is not very harmful to society as surrogacy and artificial insemination are viable options today.

Live and let live.

[Zidane]

But were does it stop. If someone wants to marry thier first cousin, why not let them. What about multiple spouses? etc. Is gay marraige a social issue or a perversion that some this generation has accepted and wants to make legal? What makes this generation better than every other generation? Were not also talking gay marraige. Making this legal also makes many other benefits legal that usually regarded to the traditional family made legal to them using tax payer's money. If that is true, why not let the tax payer decide if gay marraige should be made legal? Why should the government decide for us?

The reason why gay marriage is opposed is prejudice.
The reason why incestuous marriage is opposed is because it is a lifestyle choice that could lead to some very serious problems upon reproduction.

There is a reason why being gay has become much more acceptable over the centuries, and incest has become a much more immoral act since times where it was popular and actually encouraged.

The times they are a changin'.... No more incest. Hey! Sounds like a name of a game-get on it boys!

[RustyCage]

Well, I figure that if you're going to break free of some of the ignorance of society by embracing your own homosexuality, then you shouldn't need to huddle under another one of the umbrellas of ignorance to confirm it.

In other words, you don't have to get married to be united with your partner. Particularly considering that marriage in itself is typically a religious ceremony, and taken seriously mostly because of religion. And, of course, religions are notoriously homophobic. 2 + 2 = why bother with their nonsense? Just love who you love and be true to them.

[SEGAsbest]

Well, I figure that if you're going to break free of some of the ignorance of society by embracing your own homosexuality, then you shouldn't need to huddle under another one of the umbrellas of ignorance to confirm it.

In other words, you don't have to get married to be united with your partner. Particularly considering that marriage in itself is typically a religious ceremony, and taken seriously mostly because of religion. And, of course, religions are notoriously homophobic. 2 + 2 = why bother with their nonsense? Just love who you love and be true to them.

Taxes? Also, just as a general note to those of you who have been misinformed about it being a perversion of modern day society, homosexuality has existed since ancient rome and greece. Also marriage began as a contract (more so than a religious ceremony) as far back as recorded history goes, and before that who knows.

[glassjaw0814]

I believe that it is unfair that people can use the law to rob other people of particular freedoms. This IS America, right? The land of the free? Being a gay man myself, I've dealt with a lot of prejudice and hate - the sad thing is, all of it is misniformed. Gay people are human beings just like everyone else.

My personal feelings about marriage aside, I think that homosexual couples have every right to have their unions recognized by the government in some fashion - be it marriage, civil union, what have you.

[Shiiva_Wilding]

To be honest, it's just people... if they want to and can, then let them! If you don't like seeing it on the street then don't openly search for them to moan about! All this bickering won't take away their rights to get married, so lets waste our breath on something we might be able to change... like poverty or something?!

[Zidane]

The thing is, marriage really didn't start as a religious ceremony. You're father would talk to another person's father and you would be married for land, a cow, a mule, and a few chickens.

Eventually religion became part of that, but the most important thing was that the two people loved each other. They were both in love. So why try to stop an institution as old as love itself?

That said, homosexuality has been around far before the times of Greece. It's just that the Greeks were cool with it.

[SEGAsbest]

The thing is, marriage really didn't start as a religious ceremony. You're father would talk to another person's father and you would be married for land, a cow, a mule, and a few chickens.

Eventually religion became part of that, but the most important thing was that the two people loved each other. They were both in love. So why try to stop an institution as old as love itself?

That said, homosexuality has been around far before the times of Greece. It's just that the Greeks were cool with it.

True, but as far as I know that was the earliest recording of widespread homosexuality that was in a society that openly accepted it. Correct me if I am wrong.

[Zidane]

I agreed with you earlier. The Greeks were cool with it. Not sure they were allowed to wed or not. But that's how orgies began, right?

[Androo]

I agreed with you earlier. The Greeks were cool with it. Not sure they were allowed to wed or not. But that's how orgies began, right?

Really? I thought they started with the Romans not the Greeks.

Anyway I am definitely not against two people of the same sex living with one another in an official (recognised by the state) partnership - but please do not call it marriage; it is not - as many before me have stated in this [huge] thread.

PS: I'm an open-minded Roman Catholic <-> Don't want to drag my choice of faith into this argument but until the last century most marriages were not based on love. Many bachelors just went to a woman's family and asked for her hand in marriage - if the had all the right qualities in the eyes of that specific family than he could have her. Usually the bride wouldn't have a say in it. This was the tradition in central Europe up until the middle of last century when women were given equal rights to men.

[piebot56]

I support it.

If people are happy with someone, they should be able to marry them.

[karkashan]

I don't really see any form of homosexual union a "marriage". Sorry, that's just the way I am.

The more info I get about this 'issue', the more it seems many just want to be able to get married so that they can get stuff in the divorce, which proves that they're just like many straight people in that regard.

Which, of course, is why a lot of lawyers are pushing for same-sex marriages. The more people married, the more people divorce, the more people need divorce lawyers, the more moolah possible to be made.

Wow, I'm not cynical at all, am I?

[Pichi]

I'm all for it. If one is in love with the same sex, let them be. I would just want it to be official. Doesn't have to be called marriage if people want to get too specific about it as long as whatever its called has the same benefits as marriage.

[thelonehuman]

If that's what they need to be happy, and how they want to live their lives, then why should anyone stop them?

[Darth Vader]

The more info I get about this 'issue', the more it seems many just want to be able to get married so that they can obtain the same rights two straight people who happen to love each other do when they decide to get married

hey bro, went in and fixed that for you

you can probably tell what my stance is. I don't give a hoot whether they get married or not. I also think that if people want to keep pushing this idea of marriage being a strictly religious thing, then it should stop having the legal benefits it has.

[karkashan]

The more info I get about this 'issue', the more it seems many just want to be able to get married so that they can get stuff in the divorce, which proves that they're just like many straight people in that regard.

hey bro, went in and fixed that for you

you can probably tell what my stance is. I don't give a hoot whether they get married or not. I also think that if people want to keep pushing this idea of marriage being a strictly religious thing, then it should stop having the legal benefits it has.

I stand by with what I originally said, as it's my opinion on the matter, and it doesn't need "fixing". And for me, it's not due to religious reasons, I just don't see a homosexual union as a "marriage". That's just how I see it and nothing will ever change it. The original point I was cynically making was that since we're a capatalist country, why wouldn't there be capatalist reasons for why people are pushing for this issue?

[Darth Vader]

I do think that's far too cynical a view to take (that all marriage is founded on acquiring property or objects), and I can't see why anyone who doesn't see marriage as a religious institution wouldn't consider a homosexual union 'marriage', but whatever.

I don't think most gays would have a problem with something separate, like a civil union (so that the 'sanctity of marriage' - no such thing, IMO - could be protected), if they conveyed the same rights a same-sex marriage did. Would you have a problem with that, or do you just take issue with the concept of homosexuality as a whole?

[karkashan]

I do think that's far too cynical a view to take (that all marriage is founded on acquiring property or objects), and I can't see why anyone who doesn't see marriage as a religious institution wouldn't consider a homosexual union 'marriage', but whatever.

I don't think most gays would have a problem with something separate, like a civil union (so that the 'sanctity of marriage' - no such thing, IMO - could be protected), if they conveyed the same rights a same-sex marriage did. Would you have a problem with that, or do you just take issue with the concept of homosexuality as a whole?

I was making a (bad) joke about why so many lawyers seem to be behind same-sex marriages (and marriages in general). Sorry if that wasn't plain.

As long as isn't legally called a marriage, I don't really care. When it comes to things like visitation rights, etc., I think there needs to be something in place for those who choose not to marry/have no family/are asexual but with friends.

As for homosexuality itself, I see it as a sin, but I know nobody's perfect so if they can live with themselves (or just don't care about it) I can live with it too.

[Garfitor]

And for me, it's not due to religious reasons, I just don't see a homosexual union as a "marriage".

As for homosexuality itself, I see it as a sin, but I know nobody's perfect so if they can live with themselves (or just don't care about it) I can live with it too.

Hehe, sorry, I love that gif. Anyway, so your one issue is that the civil union and the religious union share the same word? Eh. Don't see why that's such a big deal...

[karkashan]

And for me, it's not due to religious reasons, I just don't see a homosexual union as a "marriage".

As for homosexuality itself, I see it as a sin, but I know nobody's perfect so if they can live with themselves (or just don't care about it) I can live with it too.

I don't see two dudes together as a "marriage". It just doesn't register in my brain. It really doesn't have anything to do with religion, as it's more of a gut feeling.

Yes, there are religious reasons for why I don't openly support homosexuality, but that doesn't have any bearing on why I don't think two guys together isn't a marriage.

[cortjezter]

i find the marriage of two different kinds of peanut butter in one sandwich to be a perfectly acceptable thing.

[Zidane]

i find the marriage of two different kinds of peanut butter in one sandwich to be a perfectly acceptable thing.

Two different kinds of peanut butter? That sounds kinda sexy. Rough, but sexy.

[New Age Retro Hippie]

Wonderful, a thread in which I can discover whose statement is worth a grain of salt.

It's not your business whether two people of the same sex become married. Marriage is NOT a religious institution. It's an institution that religion hijacked, just like religion hijacked the Pledge of Allegiance and the dollar. The wants of religion for something that isn't theirs is as irrelevant as can be. It is not the right of the people to vote on individuals' rights, rights which affect them in no capacity [besides them being selfish, of course]. If it were, we wouldn't have interracial marriage - which, guess what, was basically forced to be legal on the federal level by the courts.

So if you are not harmed by same sex marriage, for how many moments can you dare to even suggest that it should not be allowed? Marriage is not yours, marriage is not your religion of choice's, it is a LEGAL institution. I don't have to go to a church to get married, I don't have to be married by a Priest, I don't have to have a Bible or a cross present. I could be married by a Judge; Hell, I could be married by a Captain of a ship, with no reference to religion in either situation. So besides personal religious beliefs which should never be forced on anyone in the way that many are forcing on others in this debate, what reason is there to exclude something that would help the economy?

[Sigtaro]

Marriage is just a piece of paper joining two individuals so they can get government cheese. In today's world I would love it if most people were gay. It just means less job competition for me in the future. Is it really about the money? You bet! It has always been about the money. I don't want to compete some new kid as I get older.

If marrying a best friend gives me benefits and I lived in the same place with him I would marry him and I am a straight dude. That does not mean I have to sleep in the same bed with him or do anything sexual. That's the most dominating image people think off and many straight people do the same exact thing.

[RegalSin]

Marraige is an institution of the Church. The only reason why people bother with the issue, is thanks to divorce laws.

same sex married people can now.

get divorces
make immigrants legal citizens.
get all the merits that comes with being married.

The same issue with don't ask and don't tell. People need to keep there business at the bar, and under the sheets. Not stick in peoples face. There is nothing wrong with people, but being openly about is wronger the the word wrong itself.