RUMOR - Retro's Wii U title facing rocky development, Nin...

[Emily Rogers]

So no one else caught that the employees are supposedly going to a studio that is is dead in the water?

ID Software, Armature Studios. and Bioware Austin are examples of places that Retro employees have sent out resumes to. There's no such thing as being guaranteed a job in real life. No one says "Okay after I finish working on this game, I will work at Bioware". I'm listing places in Texas that I've heard received resumes from both former and current Retro employees. When it comes to career opportunities, there's no guarantee on anything.

The idea that Retro employees would look for other opportunities in Texas to develop games so they don't have to move from their house is not crazy. Nobody wants to move out of state to get a job. Especially when you have a family and kids going to school. They first try to see what jobs are available locally.

[fk]

o wanted Retro to start on a Metroid Prime 4 after completing the 3rd game. That doesn't make sense from a business perspective (oversaturation) and having a studio only work on one series for that long. Nintendo would know better than to have one of their top studios to work with basically one franchise for over 10 years.

I'm not saying I believe her (It makes no difference if she's right or wrong...it's the way the industry works), but your defense against it certainly isn't that great. "Over saturation"? Really? You mean like releasing 2 New Super Mario Bros. games in the same year? That kind of over saturation? Oh wait, I'm sorry, it wouldn't be that kind of over saturation because it would take 2 years to make the next Metroid and there would be a gap of time in between.

There are things that Nintendo has no problem over saturating the market with, obviously the offshoot Mario games (i.e. stuff besides Mario 64, Sunshine, Galaxy). New Super Mario games are an obvious example of something they don't mind making too many of. But I think the way Nintendo views Metroid is in the same vein as Zelda. They make them infrequently and good. Obviously Other M is an exception to the quality of those kinds of franchises, but I don't consider that a real Metroid game.

A 4th Prime game in a similar style just sounds like something they wouldn't do, at least right after Metroid Prime 3 was completed. Just my opinion, obviously, but that's how I see Metroid. Part of what makes Metroid special is that there haven't been tons of them. Same with the main Zelda games.

[nGen]

So no one else caught that the employees are supposedly going to a studio that is is dead in the water?

Bioware Austin or iD?

[luigi_owns]

I agree. I actually don't mind the criticism.

I'm actually okay with many people not trusting me.

For whats it worth, I think the article I wrote at least tells people which Retro studios employees are no longer part of the company. And I think that's educational from a game industry perspective. It gives extra insight into what has happened to Retro Studio's staff over the years.

I'm curious to know more about the Metroid stuff myself. That is the part that really doesn't make sense to me. Plus, it's something I'm sure a lot of people would love to know. The way it's phrased in your article is that the series is bigger than Retro or anyone else, but yet the last Metroid game released was by and large dictated by 1 person, at least that's the perception that was given. I find that to be a contradiction.

Please correct me if I'm wrong here.

Nintendo originally thought they could still get Retro Studios to do a Metroid Prime 4 even after all of those people left.

But Retro didn't want to do Metroid Prime 4 one year after all of those MP Trilogy designers/engineers/artists had left. Retro felt the timing was way too soon and would be disrespectful to those employees who left.

With most of the MP staff gone, Retro decided to move onto a different franchise (DKC) because they could start fresh with a new staff (they recruited a lot of new members to Retro when DKC Returns began development).

Nintendo didn't want the mass amount of employees leaving to bring the Metroid series to a halt. They didn't want a bunch of people leaving to decide Metroid's fate.

This definitely seems believable to me, this sounds like Nintendo

[fk]

Whatever. I still don't buy that Nintendo wanted Retro to start on a Metroid Prime 4 after completing the 3rd game. That doesn't make sense from a business perspective (oversaturation) and having a studio only work on one series for that long. Nintendo would know better than to have one of their top studios to work with basically one franchise for over 10 years.

I don't think it has anything to do with oversaturation... Metroid Prime was always meant to be a trilogy. Even before Pacini, Keller, and Mathews left, it was well known that they were taking a break from Metroid. And it's not like Nintendo would have just let them decide that on their own.

Agreed, that's kind of what I was trying to get across as well. The Prime games seemed like they were conceived as a trilogy. Nintendo would be stupid to only have Retro working on Metroid games. Which is why I have a problem with a main point of her blog, as in Retro employees are protesting being forced to work on Prime 4.

[Emily Rogers]

Whatever. I still don't buy that Nintendo wanted Retro to start on a Metroid Prime 4 after completing the 3rd game. That doesn't make sense from a business perspective (oversaturation) and having a studio only work on one series for that long. Nintendo would know better than to have one of their top studios to work with basically one franchise for over 10 years.

I don't think it has anything to do with oversaturation... Metroid Prime was always meant to be a trilogy. Even before Pacini, Keller, and Mathews left, it was well known that they were taking a break from Metroid. And it's not like Nintendo would have just let them decide that on their own.

Agreed, that's kind of what I was trying to get across as well. The Prime games seemed like they were conceived as a trilogy. Nintendo would be stupid to only have Retro working on Metroid games. Which is why I have a problem with a main point of her blog, as in Retro employees are protesting being forced to work on Prime 4.

The rumor of members at Retro getting tired of working on Metroid games happened way before my blog article was posted today. These rumors circulated years ago.

[fk]

Agreed, that's kind of what I was trying to get across as well. The Prime games seemed like they were conceived as a trilogy. Nintendo would be stupid to only have Retro working on Metroid games. Which is why I have a problem with a main point of her blog, as in Retro employees are protesting being forced to work on Prime 4.

The rumor of members at Retro being tired of working on Metroid games happened way before my blog article was posted.

There's being tired after working on 3 Metroid games, and quitting left and right to protest. I can see them being tired, and for good reason, but I don't buy the "protesting" part of your blog without more specifics, and I don't buy NIntendo having them work on a Metroid Prime 4 game after doing the other 3.

[KingBroly]

I sort of agree. IIRC, DKCR was "done" twice before they finally unveiled it. Or something like that. There was a rumor about it before E3 2009 as well, but it wasn't there.

[Broken_Cartridge]

Whatever. I still don't buy that Nintendo wanted Retro to start on a Metroid Prime 4 after completing the 3rd game. That doesn't make sense from a business perspective (oversaturation) and having a studio only work on one series for that long. Nintendo would know better than to have one of their top studios to work with basically one franchise for over 10 years.

I don't think it has anything to do with oversaturation... Metroid Prime was always meant to be a trilogy. Even before Pacini, Keller, and Mathews left, it was well known that they were taking a break from Metroid. And it's not like Nintendo would have just let them decide that on their own.

Agreed, that's kind of what I was trying to get across as well. The Prime games seemed like they were conceived as a trilogy. Nintendo would be stupid to only have Retro working on Metroid games. Which is why I have a problem with a main point of her blog, as in Retro employees are protesting being forced to work on Prime 4.

Really? You tried conveying this point? You also agree that it has nothing to do with oversaturation? Even though your next comment supported your original claims. Believe what you want to believe.

As for Rezbit, thanks for actually contributing something to the defense against her that is more then "rawr I'm offended at the thought". Not just with that statement but with your previous ones. Now I personally don't remember it being established that it would end with a trilogy, but then again my memory is crap (and I think you proved earlier that you know your stuff). I also don't have any stance in this conversation, and when I have no viewpoint I like to play the devil's advocate and go against what the majority is saying to try and get people to stop being stubborn for stubborn's sake.

And with that I've had enough "fun". Adios.

[Emily Rogers]

@ the people bringing up the protest stuff.

I respect your opinion. You aren't forced to believe or buy that part.

I didn't say the Retro employees were protesting. I said Nintendo viewed a mass amount of senior designers/engineers just getting up and leaving the company as a form of protest.

I don't think any Retro employee intended to protest against Nintendo. No employee wants to leave a company under bad terms.

[shmuga9]

I hope this is wrong. Even if they hired guys from Uncharted and other AAA games (i think?) I still wouldn't want Retro to break down.

[fk]

Agreed, that's kind of what I was trying to get across as well. The Prime games seemed like they were conceived as a trilogy. Nintendo would be stupid to only have Retro working on Metroid games. Which is why I have a problem with a main point of her blog, as in Retro employees are protesting being forced to work on Prime 4.

Really? You tried conveying this point? You also agree that it has nothing to do with oversaturation? Even though your next comment supported your original claims. Believe what you want to believe.

As for Rezbit, thanks for actually contributing something to the defense against her that is more then "rawr I'm offended at the thought". Not just with that statement but with your previous ones. Now I personally don't remember it being established that it would end with a trilogy, but then again my memory is crap (and I think you proved earlier that you know your stuff). I also don't have any stance in this conversation, and when I have no viewpoint I like to play the devil's advocate and go against what the majority is saying to try and get people to stop being stubborn for stubborn's sake.

And with that I've had enough "fun". Adios.

Let me make it a little more clear: I agree with the other guy that the Prime games were conceived as a Trilogy. If you keep pumping the same thing out over and over, every couple of years, that gets old (some might call that over saturation). I dont' think it's good business to do that, and I would find it hard to believe Nintendo would try to force Retro to work on another Metroid game right after the trilogy was finished (if I'm reading correctly.) The issue in the blog is that Retro employees are leaving because they are protesting being forced by Nintendo to work on too many Prime games.

I am asking for more specifics about this and not getting any.

[Since1776]

What if...

The Star Fox Metroid crossover WAS real.
But somewhere along the line, Miyamoto got a good look at it and decided he didn't like what he saw. So he upended some tea tables, so to speak.
He/Nintendo gave Retro a choice. Pick one of the two franchises and continue with the game, drop the other entirely.
Retro employees were none too happy, left and/or sent out resumes as they contemplated leaving.
All put together and you have a rocky developmental road.


Now, I don't believe any of that, but it does tie two rumors nicely together.

My general policy on rumors is not to believe anything. If any senior staff at Retro leave after the games finished (in greater numbers than normally leave after finished projects,) and depending on what Retro IS actually working on, we may have a better idea to the rumors validity. But it's just too out there and unsupported to believe right now.

[Rezbit]

Agreed, that's kind of what I was trying to get across as well. The Prime games seemed like they were conceived as a trilogy. Nintendo would be stupid to only have Retro working on Metroid games. Which is why I have a problem with a main point of her blog, as in Retro employees are protesting being forced to work on Prime 4.

The rumor of members at Retro being tired of working on Metroid games happened way before my blog article was posted.

There's being tired after working on 3 Metroid games, and quitting left and right to protest. I can see them being tired, and for good reason, but I don't buy the "protesting" part of your blog without more specifics, and I don't buy NIntendo having them work on a Metroid Prime 4 game after doing the other 3.

If anything they were protesting Japan constantly breathing down their necks. I forgot who said it, but I think it was one of the three leads who left said something along the lines of don't work for Nintendo if you want creative freedom. I can understand why employees would want to leave. I'm not sure if this is an actual reason or not, but I wouldn't be surprised. I know it is common for Western developers to jump around from team to team, but it seems even more common with Retro.

[Broken_Cartridge]

Let me make it a little more clear: I agree with the other guy that the Prime games were conceived as a Trilogy. If you keep pumping the same thing out over and over, every couple of years, that gets old (some might call that over saturation). I dont' think it's good business to do that, and I would find it hard to believe Nintendo would try to force Retro to work on another Metroid game right after the trilogy was finished (if I'm reading correctly.) The issue in the blog is that Retro employees are leaving because they are protesting being forced by Nintendo to work on too many Prime games.

I am asking for more specifics about this and not getting any.

I know I said "Adios" I'm really done after this, I promise, but just....just please read. Like before where you had problems....if you would pay attention you would see.

@ the people bringing up the protest stuff.

I respect your opinion. You aren't forced to believe or buy that part.

I didn't say the Retro employees were protesting. I said Nintendo viewed a mass amount of senior designers/engineers just getting up and leaving the company as a form of protest.

I don't think any Retro employee intended to protest against Nintendo. No employee wants to leave a company under bad terms.

[fk]

Let me make it a little more clear: I agree with the other guy that the Prime games were conceived as a Trilogy. If you keep pumping the same thing out over and over, every couple of years, that gets old (some might call that over saturation). I dont' think it's good business to do that, and I would find it hard to believe Nintendo would try to force Retro to work on another Metroid game right after the trilogy was finished (if I'm reading correctly.) The issue in the blog is that Retro employees are leaving because they are protesting being forced by Nintendo to work on too many Prime games.

I am asking for more specifics about this and not getting any.

I know I said "Adios" I'm really done after this, I promise, but just....just please read. Like before where you had problems....if you would pay attention you would see.

@ the people bringing up the protest stuff.

I respect your opinion. You aren't forced to believe or buy that part.

I didn't say the Retro employees were protesting. I said Nintendo viewed a mass amount of senior designers/engineers just getting up and leaving the company as a form of protest.

I don't think any Retro employee intended to protest against Nintendo. No employee wants to leave a company under bad terms.

That's what I've been saying all this time.

[NeroSuferoth]

Frankly, I don't doubt that these guys left because they felt restrained or forced by Nintendo.. It's their (Nintendo's) franchise in the end they are putting in someone else's hands.

But these kind of things happen in the industry also... People move on from stuff to seek more growth.


However... You land a job working with Nintendo, I don't see any reason why you would try to get out of it if it weren't for working conflicts or something to that effect.

[D3stiny_Sm4sher]

hm, if this stuff is true, that's too bad -- Retro has really proven their stuff IMO, the Metroid trilogy was great, and DKCR was ALSO spectacular in a totally different way.

Whatever project they are working on that isn't ready to be shown yet, hopefully it turns out just as good as Retro's past games, regardless of any potential bumpiness.

[Emily Rogers]

hm, if this stuff is true, that's too bad -- Retro has really proven their stuff IMO, the Metroid trilogy was great, and DKCR was ALSO spectacular in a totally different way.

Whatever project they are working on that isn't ready to be shown yet, hopefully it turns out just as good as Retro's past games, regardless of any potential bumpiness.

The good thing about Retro is they always have Nintendo's supervision to get the company back on track regardless of any tough situation their in.

[DeAngelo Guillory]

I almost posted a "Stopped reading there" when I saw the name "Emily Rogers"

Then I saw her posting here...this is too rich.

[Aiddon]

I can see SOME of this being true. Team members leaving though is nothing out of the ordinary for game development which has a high turnover rate with projects. Some of these come off a bit baffling, such as saying Retro acted in protest over people leaving. Why? I understand protesting, but protesting is something you do when there's a bigger reason (usually moral) to do so.

A rocky development I can also see as Nintendo are rigid perfectionists in their work and they won't release a game without it being 100% ready. Sometimes things work badly, but Nintendo is willing to help as Emily pointed out and be patient with projects (to a point) as they'd rather delay a game than ship it broken.

As for moving Metroid to another team, I can sort of see that. Nintendo truly appreciates Retro, but they also understand when something needs another developer to find ideas. Frankly I thought the Prime Trilogy was out of ideas at the conclusion and making another one would just be pointless.

[luigi_owns]

In the famous words of Miyamoto

A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever.

[Emily Rogers]

I can see SOME of this being true. Team members leaving though is nothing out of the ordinary for game development which has a high turnover rate with projects. Some of these come off a bit baffling, such as saying Retro acted in protest over people leaving. Why? I understand protesting, but protesting is something you do when there's a bigger reason (usually moral) to do so.

A rocky development I can also see as Nintendo are rigid perfectionists in their work and they won't release a game without it being 100% ready. Sometimes things work badly, but Nintendo is willing to help as Emily pointed out and be patient with projects (to a point) as they'd rather delay a game than ship it broken.

As for moving Metroid to another team, I can sort of see that. Nintendo truly appreciates Retro, but they also understand when something needs another developer to find ideas. Frankly I thought the Prime Trilogy was out of ideas at the conclusion and making another one would just be pointless.

Retro didn't act out in protest. Nintendo just viewed mass amounts of talent leaving as an act of protest. Retro had no reason to protest.

[funkamatic]

Whatever the case here, Metroid Prime Trilogy is and always will be one of the best pieces of entertainment ever.

[MigueelDnd]

Well, well, well. I was surprised that GN got worked up on this until I saw that the author in question posted here... so that's why. Either way, it's not that I call BS on this article and person, but I think that she's just exaggerating something normal. In the game industry it's normal to see people move from studio to studio, even some key ones. Even if they're supposedly doing so in "big" amounts, that's no reason to go "deducing" preposterous conclusions. Protest or not, I'm not buying this whole thing as it's being expressed.

On past matters,

I said Pikmin 3 was moving to Project Cafe before any site or Miyamoto said it was.
I, and many posters from many forums, said that too. Not that it's worth something...

I said New Super Mario Bros was coming to 3DS.
Pretty obvious. Now, if someone would have thought it wouldn't come, that'd be a different story.

I said a lot of 360/PS3 ports were coming.
Can't comment on this as I don't know exactly what you're talking about.

I said Ubisoft is throwing a ton of support, with at least 2 games.
Didn't we all? Ubisoft's like that.

I said Project Cafe was getting a big FPS. Then you saw Killer Freaks/Zombie U.
Depends on your definiton of big. Either way, "a big FPS" is general, come on.

I said Project Cafe was getting no harddrive.
Considering Nintendo's approach with the WiiU, it wasn't hard to imagine this, but still, I'll give you this.

Anything else? Nothing that surprising there.

Retro is a great studio, this "rocky" development cycle shouldn't come as a surprise because we all know of Nintendo's quality standards. There's a lot of polishing and fixing to do if you're working directly with them. Either way, if what you're trying to do is get hits for your blog, then you're doing a pretty good job.