Goriginal Content

EoD - Happy release!

EoD - Too big & loud

Smash Wii U review

Adventure Time rev

Pokemon AS review!

EoD - Instagram fun
 

Sakurai talks Lucina's inclusion in Smash Bros. Wii U/3DS, why Chrom didn't make the cut

Coming from Sakurai's reoccurring Famitsu feature...

We've just announced two new characters who will be joining the fray in the upcoming Super Smash Bros. for 3DS and Wii U. One is Robin, the avatar from Fire Emblem: Awakening, and the other is Lucina, a swordswoman who plays an important role in the same title. I'll skip over the details.

"What? Not Chrom!?" I suspect a lot of you will ask. Of course, Chrom is quite popular, being the protagonist of FE:A and all. However, I chose Robin and Lucina, and I will elaborate on my reasoning.

Robin appears in the game as a Tactician and functions much like a Mystic Knight (note: FF terminology, but equivalent to magic swordsman). I thought to utilize his all-around nature by assigning swordplay to his Smash attacks and magic tomes to his special attacks--that is, allow him to use magic.

His neutral special is thunder magic that grows stronger the larger you charge it. He uses fire magic for his side special, and wind magic for recovery as his up special. Although Robin doesn't use dark magic in FE:A, I decided to assign it as his down special. It isn't the first time I've given moves to a character that they don't use in their respective game in order to capture certain aspects of the original title.

I also implemented the system used in FE:A, in which tomes break after overuse. Likewise, I included a similar system for the Levin Sword, which breaks after a certain number of uses. However, both the tomes and the Levin Sword will quickly regenerate after a set period of time.

Lucina uses the same techniques as Marth, a fighter with whom I'm sure most of you are already familiar. I even went so far as to make their strength, speed, and special attacks almost identical.

However, what sets Lucina apart is the fact that the strength of her attacks is uniform along the blade. Marth's playstyle emulates the elegant swordplay of a fencer by dealing more damage when he strikes with the tip of his blade, but the damage Lucina deals is evened out. Thus, I think that Lucina will be much easier than Marth for novice players to play with.

I played all the way through FE:A and really wanted to include a character from that rich cast in Smash Bros. Naturally, I considered adding Chrom to the roster, but the decision wasn't easy by any means.

At the end of the day, Chrom would just end up being another plain-old sword-wielder like Marth and Ike. Compared with other characters, he lacks any unique characteristics.
Conversely, when the idea of including Robin came to mind, conceiving the character was so easy that I immediately saw how it would work. From standards to specials, grabs to throws, all aspects of his moveset just fell into place. Not only did he possess characteristics unlike other fighters, but he also captured the essence of the Fire Emblem series. It was perfect!

In the end, if a game isn't fun, then there's no point. Of course, it would be really easy to make a game by churning out a ton of similar characters, but that's not how I produce games.

Initially, I had considered including Lucina as one of Marth's alternate costumes. After all, she has a close relationship with him in FE:A. In such cases, even if two characters' names and voices differ, as long as they function the same way, I assign them as alternate costumes. The Wii Fit Trainers, Villagers, and Robin are examples of this setup.

However, even though Lucina shares her physical stats and techniques with Marth, the characteristics of their attacks differ. When two such similar characters function in an even slightly different manner, I give them a separate spot on the roster since that will affect battle records and whatnot. In that sense, you could say she was very lucky to join the fray!


Thanks to Sonny and Masked_Man for the heads up!

Link

Also check out:
Discussion Preview
34 total comments (View all)
User avatar
17 Jul 2014 02:44

It's weird phrasing, but essentially:

Chrom was planned, but was too samey. So Robin was chosen.
Lucina was a costume that evolved to a character.

So, for those against Sakurai's fuzzy logic, ROBIN got in over Chrom. Not Lucina.

If Lucina stayed a costume, it would've been JUST Robin. Not Robin & Chrom.
User avatar
17 Jul 2014 02:48

I mean, I don't mind Lucina as a character. The more females, the better. But what irks me is when I think about the fact that an alt costume is now taking up a whole roster spot. Plus, isn't he more or less admitting that she's worse than Marth? She's like the bike with training wheels that you use to work up to the real thing.
User avatar
17 Jul 2014 02:48

Personally, I'm just SO freaking happy that Lucina is in the game as a playable character, even if she plays pretty much like Marth with a few exceptions here and there. I'll never play as Marth anyway's so this doesn't affect me in the slightest. Interesting that Chrom was planned and even though he's not a playable character himself, I understand why he isn't. Having him as a part of Robin's Final Smash is more than ok with me! :D
User avatar
17 Jul 2014 02:50

@BillNye
I don't see how some don't realize that Lucina was an extra character. She didn't take anyone's spot, she was going to be an alt, but was slightly altered to be her own character. Nothing is really lost.
User avatar
17 Jul 2014 02:54

Sonicb00m111 wrote:I mean, I don't mind Lucina as a character. The more females, the better. But what irks me is when I think about the fact that an alt costume is now taking up a whole roster spot. Plus, isn't he more or less admitting that she's worse than Marth? She's like the bike with training wheels that you use to work up to the real thing.


You do realize that the only spot she is technically taking is Chrom's, more or less. I seriously doubt that her being a playable character cuts someone else from being in the game. And no, I don't believe he's admitting that Lucina is worse than Marth. Marth has been nerfed from what I could tell given the various E3 demo's, impressions, ect. With this in mind, Lucina is not only a great character for those who had trouble using Marth but she'll probably play similarly to Marth from Melee or possibly Brawl with a few changes here and there like the fact that her landing lag is faster than Marth's as well as a few other additions here and there.

Also, don't forget about the custom move-sets which will help you create a unique Lucina that differs even further from Marth.
User avatar
17 Jul 2014 02:59

I don't want to sound feminist/pro-male or something like that, but maybe Lucina made the cut as a more-balanced Marth clone because of more female characters in the roster. Hasn't Sakurai already made some talk about an heavier female selection in Smash Bros for Wii U/3DS in the past?
User avatar
17 Jul 2014 03:07

Lokamp wrote:I don't want to sound feminist/pro-male or something like that, but maybe Lucina made the cut as a more-balanced Marth clone because of more female characters in the roster. Hasn't Sakurai already made some talk about an heavier female selection in Smash Bros for Wii U/3DS in the past?


Hey, I'm all for more female representation in Smash Bros and Lucina is just perfect for that. She is a strong, female character, plus it only makes sense for her to adopt Marth's fighting style giving she imitated him for a LONG time. Regardless of the reason, I am BEYOND excited for her being a playable character, Marth clone and all. :wink:
User avatar
17 Jul 2014 03:08

I so called it, Chrom would essentially have been just another Ike and/or Marth and I can bet more people would be pissed if one of those two were removed for Chrom
User avatar
17 Jul 2014 03:09

So... it seems Chrom didn't make the cut for the exact reasons I (and I'm sure many others) didn't want him in Smash; he'd be way to similar to Marth. While Lucina made the cut because she was suppose to be a costume for Marth... but then got tweaked until she became her own character.

Also...
robometal cowboy wrote:Initially, I had considered including Lucina as one of Marth's alternate costumes. After all, she has a close relationship with him in FE:A. In such cases, even if two characters' names and voices differ, as long as they function the same way, I assign them as alternate costumes. The Wii Fit Trainers, Villagers, and Robin are examples of this setup.

This is very interesting... does this suggest Sakurai has added alternate characters as costumes? He said himself Lucina was suppose to be a costume for Marth, and right here Sakurai speaks as if he has already done it.
User avatar
17 Jul 2014 03:36

@BillNye
What I said proved that what you said was wrong, though. And Roy also happend to have a unique move, so he was even more different. I never said they wearen't very similar.

@JD
I honestly don't Think he would have other characters as costumes, despite him sorta implying it. I mean, even if they are the same in moveset, the character would have Another name, and announcer would have to say those names as well. As well as that character would 'need' trophies of it's own as well. And such.
User avatar
17 Jul 2014 03:45

MasterofMonster wrote:I honestly don't Think he would have other characters as costumes, despite him sorta implying it. I mean, even if they are the same in moveset, the character would have Another name, and announcer would have to say those names as well. As well as that character would 'need' trophies of it's own as well. And such.


:? ...yeah, so?

I mean, he basically stated that a character with a different name could be a costume... and I can't see how everything else you listed would be a problem.
User avatar
17 Jul 2014 03:46

Just like every other Smash, you have to expect clones. I think some Brawl clones will be kicked to the curb (just like Dr. Mario, Pichu, and Roy were for new clones in Brawl). This time around, I think Lucas and Wolf will be axed.
jasonmaivia wrote:I don't want the Smash Bros roster to end up like Tekken's where nearly 1/2 to 2/3 of the roster are clones. I want it to be more like Street Fighter's where most of the characters are unique.

Definitely!
Ryu, Evil Ryu, Akuma, Oni, Ken, and to a lesser extent, Sakura and Dan are all very different. Yun and Yang are super different too!
User avatar
17 Jul 2014 03:47

@JD
Um, yeah, and I said I don't Think he will actually make any character a different costume, partly for Those reasons.
User avatar
17 Jul 2014 04:37

@TheLastBlade This...

She should've just been an Alt for Marth [or an AT] then.
User avatar
17 Jul 2014 04:47

cobaltorange wrote:Just like every other Smash, you have to expect clones. I think some Brawl clones will be kicked to the curb (just like Dr. Mario, Pichu, and Roy were for new clones in Brawl). This time around, I think Lucas and Wolf will be axed.
jasonmaivia wrote:I don't want the Smash Bros roster to end up like Tekken's where nearly 1/2 to 2/3 of the roster are clones. I want it to be more like Street Fighter's where most of the characters are unique.

Definitely!
Ryu, Evil Ryu, Akuma, Oni, Ken, and to a lesser extent, Sakura and Dan are all very different. Yun and Yang are super different too!

I said most, not all.
You've named the obvious clones in the series, but I'm talking about Street Fighter as a whole, where the rosters have been very good. I guess the same can be said about other fighters, like Virtua Fighter, The King of Fighters, Dead or Alive, Blazblue. While there were still clones here and there, those games didn't go overboard like Tekken has.

Back to Street Fighter, you still have a great deal of unique characters, like:
Blanka
E. Honda
Chun Li
R. Mika
Vega
Guy
Makoto
Zangief
Alex
Q
Karin
Adon
Balrog
Cody
Rose
Dee Jay
Dhalsim
M.Bison
Elena
and many, many , many more.
Yeah, I know about Ryu, Ken, Dan, Akuma, Sakura, Evil Ryu, etc, etc., and the Cammy clones, but the rest...mostly unique, and that's what I LOVE about a good fighting game roster.

I still don't understand the need to keep adding clones when the effort could be used toward developing a brand new character, new fighting styles, and new stories/rivalries.

Example: The revival of Tiger Jackson
Now we have 3 Capoeira fighters (along with Christie and Eddy) in TTT2. Tiger doesn't have a story ending in Arcade mode, doesn't have a strong relationship with any of the characters in the game (pretty much), has no purpose for being in the tournaments (much like many of the clones...I guess just for money and fame), and cannot be used in the customization mode (even though you can still edit Eddy to look like Tiger). He's only there just to fill in another character slot, joining the rest of the clones, but he gets to have his own character slot this time.

The Tekken series started way back in the mid 90s, and in its first game half of the roster were clones. Since then, they've kept the clone thing going (even into Soul Calibur). Of the entire series, the only ones that I can think of who aren't a clone or have a clone are: Paul, Lei, Steve, Marduk, Feng, Lars, Alisa, Raven, Zafina, Miguel, Leo...I think I'm missing someone, but look at what I've just listed -- that's tiny. Out of over 50-something characters, that's pretty much all the unique characters we have. It could actually be smaller than this list...someone on that list is probably a clone or will be when Tekken 7 arrives.

I'm not saying that clones should be killed off and not return. Instead, what I would love to see are these characters standing out more with a completely new move set of their own. It sometimes goes further out into other types of games in subtle ways. They may not be as deep as fighters are, but they have *something* that makes a difference.

Having unique characters was why I fell in love with Super Mario Bros. 2 on the NES back in the late 80s/90s. Their unique characteristics and abilities are why they were memorable, specifically, Luigi's flutter jump and Peach's ability to float.

And even though Kirby's Return to Dream Land was a good game with having 4-player support, playing as the other characters who weren't Kirby was kinda disappointing.
King Dedede was mostly just Kirby + Hammer ability
Waddle Dee was mostly just Kirby + Spear ability
Meta Knight was mostly just Kirby + Sword ability

Pretty much cloned characters with 1 or 2 unique abilities.
They could have done a lot better than that, and truly made them into totally unique characters.
No Avatar
17 Jul 2014 04:52

The only thing I didn't really care for in the past were clones like Ganondorf and Captain Falcon where the two characters are really different as far as who and what they are in the Nintendo world that I didn't want them playing similarly. Still, even for all their similarities, they played quite differently.
User avatar
17 Jul 2014 05:15

BillNye wrote:"I even went so far as to make their strength, speed, and special attacks almost identical."

In other words, you were too lazy to balance a character so you just made them an exact clone.

Are you calling Sakurai lazy?

My god.

*shakes head*
No Avatar
17 Jul 2014 05:48

I love how people don't seem to understand that she didn't replace anyone. She was planned as an alternate costume for Marth, but then became her own thing because she was tweaked a little too far from the original to apply since it would mess with the statistics logging in the game...

Robin replaced Chrom, not Lucina.
User avatar
17 Jul 2014 09:16

Very bizarre reasoning but whatever.
All said and done I like Chrom better as a character but I digress.

For the record I'm not confused about who "replaced" who but if we were going to make a Marth clone...
User avatar
17 Jul 2014 09:25

I think that it would have been better if Sakurai had set up Lucina as one of Marth's alternate costumes, and then made Chrom a separate new character. The changes, such as the power being at the tip of the sword or balanced throughout, could have been set up through the customization options instead.
User avatar
17 Jul 2014 09:39

cobaltorange wrote:
Ryu, Evil Ryu, Akuma, Oni, Ken, and to a lesser extent, Sakura and Dan are all very different. Yun and Yang are super different too!


Most of those characters play pretty differently. I know it' seems like they're clones from a superficial point of view, but there are tons of finer details that separate them and make them radically different.

Same thing for Fox/Falco or Mario/Luigi or Captain/G-dorf.

Anyway, I'm pretty interested in Lucina. I don't think I'll end up maining him, but I'm definitely interested in combat potential.

As for Lucina, I like the inclusion more than Chrom if only because another female adds more variety than another dude, but I'm not all that excited by the differences between her and Marth. She's basically Marth but without a need for spacing and positioning.

The thing I liked about Brawl was that even the "clone" characters weren't actually clones outside of special moves and even those were pretty different. Like really, who is gonna complain that all Star Fox character have blasters? Like seriously. And even then, all the blasters for the three SF reps were very different. All their regular moves were completely different, so yeah. I hope Lucina is different enough from Marth, but from what I'm reading it doesn't seem like she'll be better than Marth unless there's something they haven't revealed about her abilities.
User avatar
17 Jul 2014 10:12

@BillNye
Funny how an underage kid is calling a japanese person that is probably working 12 hours a day lazy.
I bet if they delayed the game a few months to add more unique characters, since clearly this is what you want, you would be whining about it.
User avatar
17 Jul 2014 12:25

cobaltorange wrote:Just like every other Smash, you have to expect clones. I think some Brawl clones will be kicked to the curb (just like Dr. Mario, Pichu, and Roy were for new clones in Brawl). This time around, I think Lucas and Wolf will be axed.
jasonmaivia wrote:I don't want the Smash Bros roster to end up like Tekken's where nearly 1/2 to 2/3 of the roster are clones. I want it to be more like Street Fighter's where most of the characters are unique.

Definitely!
Ryu, Evil Ryu, Akuma, Oni, Ken, and to a lesser extent, Sakura and Dan are all very different. Yun and Yang are super different too!


I will literally CRY if Wolf is cut. I don't understand it when people call him a clone. It makes no sense to me whatsoever. My two mains are Fox and Wolf and it is insane on how differently the two play. 20 out of 23 of Wolf's moves are unique or have a totally different animation and have different effects on the opponents. Wolf is BY FAR the most unique of the semi-clones. They need to change Wolf's Final Smash, as well as Falco though. Though, they will probably only change Falco's.
User avatar
17 Jul 2014 13:49

I don't see clone characters taking up roster spots really. Less development time and most likely they were added last second as well. I'd rather have a clone character than no character at all.

IlikeBacon16 wrote:
cobaltorange wrote:I will literally CRY if Wolf is cut. I don't understand it when people call him a clone. It makes no sense to me whatsoever. My two mains are Fox and Wolf and it is insane on how differently the two play. 20 out of 23 of Wolf's moves are unique or have a totally different animation and have different effects on the opponents. Wolf is BY FAR the most unique of the semi-clones. They need to change Wolf's Final Smash, as well as Falco though. Though, they will probably only change Falco's.


Yep, I don't see wolf getting cut at all. Too unique.
User avatar
17 Jul 2014 13:51

People Calling Wolf a clone are

1: lying.
2: never played the game/those character(s)
3: is trolling
4: is a idiot.
5: etc~

View the full discussion!

Quickie Search

"Advanced" Search

Anti-social Tendencies

Advertisements

RSS feed trough

News Feed
Top Stories
Console News
Portables News
Podcast Feed
GoNintendo Radio Feed
Twitter Feed

Affiliates + Friends

Destructoid
Gamersyde
Modojo
TheBitBlock
Anime Your Way