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Metroid's and Metroid Prime's Continuities

I'm wondering since it's a point of discussion. Since the producer Yoshio Sakamoto and producer Kensuke Tanabe have different takes on Metroid. ¿Is it really bad there are two stories to this series?

Here's my main point. Time.
At what point, would there be enough Prime games to not fit in the time between Metroid and Metroid 2?
How much time (in average) is across the Prime trilogy so far?
Finally wouldn't the events like the proliferation of Metroids acquired by the Space Pirates be at odds with Metroid 2? As in the Prime games Space Pirates had a least a containment area for these critters. How could Samus exterminate all of them?

hamr
Thu Sep 07 17 06:20pm
(Updated 1 time)

I think the implication in the Prime series is that even though they respawn indefinitely in-game, Samus canonically clears out all the Metroids in each of the areas she runs through. So there are no more Metroids on Tallon IV or Aether -- hence the GF's surprise in Federation Force when they see that the Space Pirates still have specimens.

In principle it is not much of a big deal even if they are still around, though, since most of the non-SR-388 Metroids are relatively un-threatening in comparison to the former and could be easily taken down by GF troops using the standard-issue ice beam side-arms we saw in Other M.

(Notably, the tougher breeds of Metroids in the Prime series so far have all been explicitly wiped out: Fission Metroids were confined to the Impact Crater, which blew up; Dark Metroids could not survive outside of (and consequently perished with) Dark Aether; Phazon Metroids and all their variants died out with all other Phazon-based lifeforms in the universe due to the destruction of Phaaze; and all the modified Big Metroids were in the Talvania breeding lab when it exploded.)

I do not think they ever specify a timeframe between Zero Mission and Return, and the existing Prime games seem like they could have all taken place over the course of a few months, so I do not really see an issue with that part of the timeline getting too crowded.

Points taken. Even the epilogue of Federation Force could still fit as the issue the broke the camels back that made the Federation wanting to wipe them. As it implies Sylux wants to use them as a weapon against the Federation.

I just wonder if Prime can continue to a point where it really feels like it's disconnected from the 2D branch, not because it has to. I suppose it's the flaw of a prequel, you more or less know how it'll end.

It could also be like Smallville and just being a franchise that brings ideas to an early point in this character's life. I'll find funny if the reason Samus looks so angry in Samus Returns is because of that romantic subplot with Sylux. (We'll see...)

Finally either 2D or 3D as an hypothetical question; does Samus ever stops being alone? Can Metroid walk the path Alien 3 didn't went with?

My wild, out-there theory is that Sylux is the same Metroid-species as whatever the hell Prime originally was. He just took the route of GF experimentation/stealing a GF suit to get to his current form instead of Phazon exposure/stealing Samus's suit.

This would at least explain why Hunters, FF, and 4 still retain the series's name in spite of the original Metroid Prime not appearing/being dead in them.

Spoiler

"does Samus ever stops being alone"

The end of Fusion has her accompanied by Robo-Adam and The Animalz, but as with Star Fox Command and DMC2, I still do not believe Nintendo is all that interested in ever following up that ending.

She has lots of friends in supplemental materials like comic books and stuff, but those are all A. awful and B. not canon.

Other M has Anthony, I guess. Maybe someday we will see him again.

IMO Metroid works best with minimal friendly-NPC presence. Leave the giant cast of friends to Sonic.

I mean, if we're gonna continue Samus having a rival in the Prime games at least it'll be nice it doesn't look like herself. Still I hope they do it right since so far what has been said sounds problematic. A romantic subplot, or a "You and I are not so different" and also whatever continues from Federation Force, giant space pirates, golem class armor, sequels to the space pirate mind control.

The end of Fusion has her accompanied by Robo-Adam and The Animalz

That's why I'm asking. That's more or less how Aliens ended. What if it starts with the Federation shooting the ship down and the X having assimilated the animals or something. And then Samus has to find a way to escape a prison planet while the ramifications of her DNA is turning her into a monster. Also they'll need a excuse to revert the Fusion suit because tradition.

Also I expect Metroid Prime 4 referencing Admiral Dane. Since I don't think they'll use him again and in canon doesn't feel like Samus will be in the same space sector. Also, none of the hunters died so who knows. Weavel also had pending issues with Samus.

"it'll be nice it doesn't look like herself"

Dark Samus did not look like her; it just had her armor. By the end of Echoes, even that resemblance was gone.

(I am still irritated that Corruption went on to roll that design back to the way it looked at the end-of-Prime/start-of-Echoes for no good reason. Pretty much all of the other proposed designs in the original concept art were way cooler.)

"What if it starts with the Federation shooting the ship down and the X having assimilated the animals or something."

The X are all dead, and losing the animals would be bummer, but blowing up Robo-Adam and the ugly Fusion-ship would be a major plus.

"And then Samus has to find a way to escape a prison planet while the ramifications of her DNA is turning her into a monster."

Samus loses her Metroid DNA when she re-absorbs the Sax's core. That is why she can use the Ice Beam again afterwards.

"Also they'll need a excuse to revert the Fusion suit because tradition."

If we take Other M as canon, she can apparently just will her old suit back into existence by concentrating hard enough.

Spoiler

Pretty much all of the other proposed designs in the original concept art were way cooler.

But it wouldn't have looked good for the cover. Also that angel of darkness bit, was so weird.

and losing the animals would be bummer

"Why? Why are the innocent punished? Why the sacrifice? Why the pain? There aren't any promises. Nothing certain. "

If we take Other M as canon, she can apparently just will her old suit back into existence by concentrating hard enough.

That's in the Prime games also, and Zero Mission. Even in the new Samus Returns the animation looks similar to how she died in Other M.

Seems to be made of the same things as the Triforce being conveniently tangible or an energy construct depending on the what's convenient. Yet, you can also push that idea so far, by having Samus taking her suit out of emotion wasn't explained well. Also in Zero Mission I didn't get how she couldn't put it back on. Does she put it somewhere in the ship? Was the way to activate damaged in the crash?

"But it wouldn't have looked good for the cover."

I dunno, I think a skeletal Metroidy face floating in the background would have looked fine.

Though nothing was ever going to make 'Samus floating in space next to a mirror' good.

"Why? Why are the innocent punished? Why the sacrifice? Why the pain? There aren't any promises. Nothing certain. "

Nintendo needs to drop the idea of taking cues from that series because the end-point of that practice is Samus becoming a moron who screws everything up by slipping in the same puddle of blood twice in a row.

"That's in the Prime games also, and Zero Mission. Even in the new Samus Returns the animation looks similar to how she died in Other M."

The suit appears and disappears in those games, but it is also still implied that it is an actual material item with a persistent existence that she is physically putting on and taking off that just sort of goes elsewhere when not in use. It can broken, it can be destroyed. Pieces of it can be taken off and assimilated by parasites (including while she is unconscious). When it gets damaged, that damage is not fixed by just turning it on and off, Samus has to get replacement parts and stuff for it. When she affixes new accessories to it that were not on it before, those accessories also disappear and reappear with it. When Samus dies, it continues to monitor her vital signs (or lack thereof).

In Other M, it disappears when she gets freaked out by Ridley and then re-appears when she gets over it. Then later on Adam shoots her from behind and the damage is seemingly great enough to de-materialize it like when it gets destroyed. Then later she just... wills it back together and it works fine.

"Also in Zero Mission I didn't get how she couldn't put it back on."

My reading was that it was destroyed in Zero Mission, so there was no suit to put back on, so she had to get a new one from the Chozo temple.

apparently, all she had to do was feel better about herself!

Then later she just... wills it back together and it works fine.

I wonder if Other M, had a thing like Hollywood has with showing the actor's face and unmasking the superhero constantly. Other than that, seems like a flaw in logic, that was like in Identity Crisis when Deathstroke took Hal Jordan's green lantern ring just by using his own willpower against his.

https://arousinggrammardotcom.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/deathstrokejla11.jpg

I mean if we go by that logic, she'll also will be losing it in Dark Aether, or when Mother Brain shot her with what I assume is a more painful beam.

"I wonder if Other M, had a thing like Hollywood has with showing the actor's face and unmasking the superhero constantly."

That is definitely a part of it (and in interviews, the Team Ninja guys talk about how they wanted to show off the Zero Suit even more to illustrate Samus being weak) , but it was also partly a reflection of that game mechanic where Samus just concentrates to undamage her suit and re-up her missiles (because the devs inexplicably took out enemy drops).

The Team Ninja guys talk about how they wanted to show off the Zero Suit even more to illustrate Samus being weak

It's both sad and funny that Ninja Gaiden 3 looks like it was inspired by Other M. Because after killing armies of demons, there comes a time the mass murder gets a remorse of conscience.

because the devs inexplicably took out enemy drops

Remember when games had different ammo for every type of weapon.


Pepperidge Farm remembers.

hamr
Thu Sep 14 17 03:47pm
(Updated 1 time)

Been thinking about this thread the last couple of days.

Now that Samus Returns is out, it seems like that game was intended at least in part as a bridge between the 2D and 3D parts of the series.

We already knew that it retains sound effects from the Prime games (like Samus's scream when she Game-Overs) and that it uses remixes of music from all around the series (and notably retains the original song names in the Sound Test even when they describe places like Brinstar or Magmoor, which are not on SR388 ) -- but it looks like (massive end-game spoilers for Samus Returns)

Spoiler

vonter
Fri Sep 15 17 02:29am
(Updated 3 times)

Spoiler

hamr
Fri Sep 15 17 11:30pm
(Updated 1 time)

Spoiler

"Other M make even less sense on why they have a Queen, (disregarding the fact that if you can clone these things why have the need to keep a Queen.)"

In fairness, they did not *need* a Metroid Queen in Other M, nor were the GF planning on it. They were just randomly cloning all the gunk off Samus's suit willy-nilly without knowing what any of it was. That is why they accidentally cloned Ridley (and I guess Phantoon, somehow, despite being a ghost (~_~) ). The Metroid DNA they used just happened to be for a Queen.

Although that just raises further questions, lol. Samus did not actually run into any Metroid Queens in the course of Super. The only Metroids she came into contact with were the Infant and its copies, and if the Infant is supposed to just be a baby Metroid Queen, then why is it that all of the other clones of it (which share the same DNA) are normal Metroids? The ones in Fusion (who are also clones of it) all go through the standard life cycle. The whole point of recreating their native planet was sort of predicated on that. >.>

"I think I also have an idea on why Metroid cycles fit solely on Samus Returns and Fusion"

Iirc, Fusion says that the Metroid life cycle works that way in those games because that is how Metroids evolve in SR388-style environmental conditions. Apparently, that is also why the ones bred on Tallon IV are comparatively weak and able to be killed with just standard power beams shots if shot enough.

In regards to Ridley it's weird how he's basically like Sigma, Ganon or Dracula, as the series has gone on, I expected we get clarity in that it was a species of Space Pirates. But NO, it's apparently the same one. everytime until Fusion.I suppose the smart fact is on how he's been able to fool death.

Personally, I had always just assumed that the Metroid Queen could sense her children dying and the earthquakes were just her throwing a fit.

That was also the sense I got, especially in AM2R. Still the liquid is explained in this remake. Though it seems a rather expensive and useless exercise since apparently Metroids don't reproduce that fast. Seems like engineering them through artificial means makes more of them faster. It's kinda like putting a border wall.(#commentary)

"Apparently, that is also why the ones bred on Tallon IV are comparatively weak and able to be killed with just standard power beams shots if shot enough."

The relation between Metroids and certain sentient energy based creatures is interesting. I mean one could see Phazon as being similar to the X, in regards of how it propagates.

Still it's weird how in Prime the mutations while existing aren't similar to the ones in 2 and Fusion. Which further tells it might be because of something in SR388. The planet's body mass, the atmosphere or even the flora and fauna. I just thought it fitted that the X could be the catalyst since even when recreating SR388, though where it gets muddy it's that evidently there were other genuine animals based on the skeletons. Animals that somehow still coexisted with the X before they where contained by the Chozo. I don't know seems failry possible, like with the Phazon, the X makes the Metroids change. Might be high energy based life making those changes.

hamr
Mon Sep 18 17 09:46pm
(Updated 1 time)

"In regards to Ridley it's weird how he's basically like Sigma, Ganon or Dracula, as the series has gone on, I expected we get clarity in that it was a species of Space Pirates. But NO, it's apparently the same one. everytime until Fusion"

I think you mean until Super. Other M indicates that Zebes's destruction took out the original Ridley for good.

If you ignore the aforementioned weird bit in Corruption, he has a pretty straight-forward continuity:

Spoiler

"It's kinda like putting a border wall.(#commentary)"

Solving problems in non-drastic ways was not a strong-point of the Chozo.

"I don't know seems failry possible, like with the Phazon, the X makes the Metroids change. Might be high energy based life making those changes."

It is possible, sure. The games have already established that Metroids can absorb aspects of and change based on what they eat: e.g., the Hatchling stealing the Hyperbeam from Mother Brain and giving it to Samus or the Metroid Queen on the BOTTLESHIP having Ridley's fire breath.

"And it confuses me what are the properties that could benefit mankind"

I dunno. The Space Pirates in the first two Prime games use them as sources of energy (when they are not feeding them Phazon) and the Hatchling is pretty decent at performing first-aid on Samus.

There are probably better applications for Metroids than 'Release them somewhere and let them eat everyone', but the Pirates and the Federation are clearly not the people to come up with those ideas.

I think one of the reasons Nintendo is reluctant to do a post-Fusion game is that Sakamoto has no idea how to do a game without Ridley (Returns reinforces this theory!) and Fusion makes it a little difficult to write a game *with* him.
Kinda the same deal as the Zebes/SR388 conundrum.

In general a post fusion game is a post Metroids game. Or at least, it was, because if a game does involve the Chozo, whose to say they couldn't make more, better, faster, stronger. Also their inclusion could add a device or powerup to restore Samus's suit after what happened to it in Fusion. Also also, that would mean yet again there's parallel with the Alien franchise, do we want to know?

Also the Space Pirate Confederation seems weakened and in that sense I do get why it's hard to come with a new main baddie (especially since Nintendo usually oneshots new villains in their main franchises). Star Fox, and Yoshi's Island especially feel like they can't top their main villains. At this point I could see Ridley coming back as an alien ghost, seems like the next proper contrivance they could use, is not like this franchise hasn't had ghosts.

The games have already established that Metroids can absorb aspects of and change based on what they eat:

That's a good subtle point. The Metroid Prime did take Samus skills as well as creating Phazon, from wherever that thing came from.

"In general a post fusion game is a post Metroids game."

I dunno, all you need is one Metroid (or apparently one scrap of a Metroid's DNA) to create a million of them, and I do not recall any indication that the BSL was the only facility with samples like that. Even if Samus remembers Other M and washes off the Omega gunk she got on her suit in the final battle of Fusion, there are relatively easy ways to write standard Metroids back into existence.

Heck, FF just straight-up says, 'Here's a Metroid. Yeah, we have no idea where it came from. [chibi shrug-emoticon]'

I kind of appreciate the lack of pretense, haha.

"Also the Space Pirate Confederation seems weakened and in that sense I do get why it's hard to come with a new main baddie (especially since Nintendo usually oneshots new villains in their main franchises)"

Huge spoilers for Samus Returns's 100% completion ending:

Spoiler

"At this point I could see Ridley coming back as an alien ghost, seems like the next proper contrivance they could use, is not like this franchise hasn't had ghosts."

That is actually a pretty good idea.

"The Metroid Prime did take Samus skills as well as creating Phazon, from wherever that thing came from."

Yeah, and in the original (superior) version of the game, there were logs detailing how it also absorbed a bunch of Pirate Troopers and their technology, which is why the first form has the various beam immunities and a bunch of obviously-mechanical parts (that make no sense with the explanation Corruption tries to give).

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