Super Mario 3D Land, New Super Mario Bros. 2, New Super Mario Bros. Mii...there's a lot of Mario love lately in both spin-offs and main titles on the way. We all love Nintendo's favorite plumber, but is it time to worry about the mainline franchise getting a little too played out?
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Nintendo has put out a ton of new IP's this generation. For the most part their new games have been casual games, but they still count. The reason they don't do more is because most new IP's don't sell on any platform. As long as the public continues to eat these games up I'm not sure why Nintendo must cut back.
I didn't say anything about Mario Galaxy 2, I adore both games, I was referring moreso to recent trends.
When I pick up a Mario experience, I expect it to be a wonderful game with creative bits inside. That's how every main Mario game I've played was like (not counting remakes) until New Super Mario Bros. DS came out. Then we got the excellent Mario Galaxy games, and New Super Mario Bros. Wii was a lot better, but the 3DS Mario games (as well as... Skyward Sword for some reason, I'm a pretty huge Zelda fan, but Skyward Sword left me with a kind of.... Nyeh. I know it has nothing to do with Mario, but it just shows a change in Nintendo's game-making style.) have been sooooo generic. I used to play Mario all the time growing up, and I'd label the games by experiences that were incredibly different from each other.
Now, as a teenager, I didn't play the first couple of Mario's until I got older. I started out with Mario 64, which I would see as the 3D game with the caps that let you do so many things, with different worlds, the penguins, Bowser tail swinging, all of that stuff. I played Mario Sunshine, the one with the water pack, which looked so amazing on the Gamecube. Power ups here and there, a story, stuff like that. Super Mario Land 2 was so weird, but I loved it because it was unique with the rabbit cap and Wario. Super Mario Galaxy absolutely blew my mind because of its creativity. Playing the later games, I saw how much each title changed in style from the NES to the SNES and to where I picked up in childhood.
Playing Super Mario 3D Land reminded me of absolutely none of that. It held no charm in my eyes, because it felt like a 3D version of New Super Mario Bros. I was expecting something different, after hearing how it would "play like Super Mario 64 and Galaxy and New Super Mario Bros. combined", I expected large levels with exploration in linear segments in the vein of Galaxy with some retro tidbits thrown in. Instead, none of that happened. It ended out bland as hell.
Why is it that in the year 2011, we had a Mario game where the final boss battle is beaten in the same vein as the first game of the franchise's is? Why is it that it took more effort to defeat Bowser in Super Mario World than in Super Mario 3D Land? Why are there more bosses? More music? More variety? It's really sad when older systems had more complex entries in a franchise than a modern gen system does. Especially when it's obviously due to laziness or rushed to the market for a quick buck.
By the way, I always praised, and ended up loving, Uprising. The game gave me hope that Nintendo doesn't spiral down toward a generic future.
Dear God, did he just say...? Yes, he did.
DaHell? YET AGAIN, actually point out these supposed new IPs. The last 3 time I've asked you to do so, you've ignored it. Perhaps because you couldn't answer? A new IP is NOT a one-off game like Pushmo that is thrown onto Nintendo's store. It is a potential franchise that Nintendo put good time into making and making it well, actually ADVERTISING the damn thing. None of which they've even attempted since the original Pikmin game over a decade ago.
It's not often that I gree with Shaanoyboi, much less whole-heartedly as I do now , so when I do I can assure you that it is very likely that most others here will agree with that.
They don't have to "reinvent the wheel". The whole problem is that they've been releasing so many Mario games as of late they put less effort into making them and thus the quality suffers or they take less time to refine things, thus blandness ensues. The NSMB series is the main culprit of this, though it was very present in 3D Land as well.
[quote="Star Luigi"][quote="Laharl-KOTNW"][quote="Star Luigi"]@Laharl-KOTNW
The sales figures disagree with you. Just off the top of my head this generation Wii Sports, Wii Music, Wii Fit, Xenoblade, Pandora's Tower, Electroplankton, Elite Beat Agents, Dillion's Rolling Western, Steel Diver, Nintendogs, Flingsmash, Push
mo, Brain Age, Endless Ocean, every other game with Wii in front of it, Disaster, Trace Memory, hotel Dusk, Last Story, Art style, Fluidity, Meteos, Picross Ds, Starfy, Fossil fighters, Sakura Samurai, and Ketzal's Corridors.
I hope that's enough for you.
No one tells Rovio to stop making Angry Birds, or Sony to stop pumping out Uncharted and God of War games. You know why? Because those games sell and they'd be stupid to stop making them as frequently as they do.
@Shaanyboi
So what your saying is that the NSMB games suck because of the art style? Graphics aren't everything, and if you want to complain about a game, you might want to use a different argument. I agree with you on Rayman Origins though. That game is spectacular.
@Laharl-KOTNW
I guess I didn't make it clear when I said "not a one-off game, but a potential franchise". -_- Thus knocking off FlingSmash, Pushmo, Xenoblade, Electroplankton, Sakura Samurai, Hotel Dusk, Elite Beat Agents, Steel Diver, Fluidity, Meteos, Ketzal's Corridors, Disaster:DoR, Pandora's Tower, Picross DS, Dillion's Rolling Western and Fossil Fighters. The "Wii" series is kind of an obvious one, as is BA. Your list is rather empty when you realize what I was actually asking. In case you still don't see, I'm saying that Nintendo isn't bringing anything new that we haven't seen over and over this gen and almost anything new they did make lacked advertising and good marketing. =/
And I don't know about you but just because Angry Birds games continue to be made doesn't mean people don't get tired of them. It has been the same game with very, very slight differences about, what, 4 times now.
I can't say anything about Uncharted or GoW since I've only seen my dad play them.
@IxisNaugus
Wow. There probably isn't enough this in the world to show my agreement to that. . . epic . . .debating. You're incredibly awesome.
@Star Luigi
Well, technically, since EBA is a second game in a series and Last Window goes with Hotel Dusk, those aren't one off games. Meteos did get a Disney sequel too, and Fossil Fighters also got a sequel.
There's still potential for a couple of those titles as well.
What facts? Your strong "opinion" that you misconstrue as fact? The facts are that most people are happy about this latest announcement and you can stomp, yell and cry foul until you're blue in the face, but that doesn't change that fact.
The high number of + marks from the quieter majority base who simply read the articles, rank them, and move on. The - marks for this very article, and the thousands of likes on facebook for this announcement with comment after comment of "Yes" "I can't wait" "Day one" and only the occasional "Yawn" or "Not interested" peppered in prove this "fact".
Again, what's it to you if you think that Nintendo is releasing too much Mario anyway? They're not twisting your arm to buy it. If you are burned out or tired of Mario, than by all means, take a self-imposed break. But you can stop trying to act like the majority of fans shares that same feeling just because you do and should be wanting a break also. Some of us remember the 80's and 90's when sequels were released relatively close to each other and were basically slightly better and more polished versions of their predecessors. Donkey Kong Country 2 and 3 are just one of many perfect examples of this.
So I think, like I said, i'll listen to the overwhelmingly positive response this latest new Mario game has received instead of the few obsessively vocal minority.
@FrenchFryGuy
Ah, the proverbial "your facts are an opinion so let me go on pointing out my own opinion as fact" schtick. Classic. It has literally nothing to do with me thinking they're "twisting my arm" or me "stomping 'til I'm blue in the face". It's that they aren't providing anything else to buy and that by putting out so much of the same brand in such a short amount of time they're lowering the overall effort and quality they've put into Mario games recently.
@IxisNaugus
"Well maybe that's why we've also got Hotel Dusk, FlingSmash, Xenoblade, Endless Ocean, Another Code, The Last Story, Fossil Fighters, Art Academy, Elite Beat Agents and a multitude of other games this generation. Oh look, I've tripled that list of new IP's from SONY you posted! Wow! f*** me, who would have guessed Nintendo released all these new IP's!?"
1. Hotel Dusk = +1 (though the franchise is dead for the time being, unfortunately)
2. Wasn't FlingSmash poorly received? Critics mentioned it was repetitive and wasn't the best use of Wii's MotionPlus.
3. Xenoblade Chronicles = +1 (But did Nintendo really have to limit this to GameStop and their own stores though...?)
4. The Endless Ocean games are probably fine for what they are, but not exactly "fun" for traditionalists.
5. Fossil Fighters: Not to sound ignorant, but aren't the games essentially Pokemon-like RPGs? They don't even look as good or fun to play...
6. Art Academy: Like Endless Ocean, good for what it is, but not exactly a "game" for dedicated players.
7. Elite Beat Agents = +1 (my favorite DS game to date)
8. Rhythm Heaven = +2 (You mentioned this later on, but I'll count it. DS and Fever were great games, but deserve much much more attention.)
9. Professor Layton: +4 (Though, the series is becoming a bit stale...)
With that said, the games (excluding Layton) that I gave you "pluses" didn't get the attention that Nintendo's other established franchises were given. I'm not saying Mario should die; rather, give the guy a breather.
"Also, I like how you strictly specify successful character-driven IP's. That is exactly what I'm talking about. It's no longer good enough to be just a brand new IP. Now it has to be character-driven and successful, because if it's not any of these things than, well, then it doesn't count, right? Nintendo simply aren't trying hard enough, right? Yea... no. If Nintendo does release a new character-driven IP - and by now I hope to god Miyamoto's rumored new game/IP materializes as this, just to shut you people up - make no mistake that by the next announcement of a Mario title, you will go back to your scheduled b**** about too many Mario games."
Look, I love Mario platformers, but it sure would be nice to see other franchises return as well. Punch-Out!! and Kid Icarus's revival were pleasant surprises. But what about Pikmin, F-Zero, and Star Fox? Also, this generation, some Nintendo console owners would have liked to see more franchises that were high-quality all-around (presentation and gameplay), had some more complex game mechanics, and a likeable character to play. What's wrong for "core gamers'" wanting to see some new faces?
"Of course Nintendo are going to rely heavily on the Mario franchise, it's only their most successful IP and the franchise that played the key role in propelling them into the market decades ago! There have been Mario games coming in for over 25 years now, and you speak as if Nintendo is supposed to just stop releasing Mario games because shallow minded forum posters are crying for new IP's? If any other company had been behind the Mario franchise, and they had a worldwide legacy on their hands, they would have done the exact same thing Nintendo does now. Hell, other companies likely would have milked him even more shamelessly."
Except we're getting a platformer each year, as of late. Yes, they play differently, but the charm and quality of these subsequent games (with the exception of Galaxy 2) is dwindling. I like to remember the time when each mainline Mario game were unique and had their own quirks/personalities.
"I don't care if you miss the times when Mario platformers were scarce on consoles because it somehow made them more special to you - Which isn't a very impressive reason, by the way - I thank the stars that Nintendo have seemingly put those days behind them, because there was not nearly enough Mario back in those days. And no, spin-offs don't suddenly mean that it's all too much to handle. Hell you can take your foolish reasoning of the market becoming fatigued by Mario and stick it, because data shows otherwise. And, hi there, it's been over 25 years since Mario first entered the market and, oh look, franchise fatigue hasn't put him down yet! Don't like it? Better sit back and enjoy the ride, buddy, because it'll be another 25 years before franchise fatigue puts this bad boy down for good!"
Well, more development time usually leads to higher quality. And sales don't exactly dictate high quality.
"And about your complaint about no advertisements for Nintendo's newer published IP's. How the hell do you think Wii Fit sold tens of millions, or how games like Professor Layton got anywhere outside Japan!? Rooms: The main Building got TV commercials, so did Hotel Dusk and Last Window, Xenoblade got commercials, Nintendo hired Beyoncé Knowles to promote Rhythm Heaven! No, not every damn game is going to get giant marketing pushes and to expect them to is just foolish. But the point is, even if you haven't seen them get advertised on TV, doesn't mean the promotions don't exist. No, not all games get the promotions they deserve, sadly, but it's not like you're unaware of them, which is the core of this issue. Being that these new IP's exist, and people like you simply don't play them, and complain that they are not there, when they are."
I don't recall any for Hotel Dusk in America. As for Rhythm Heaven, what happened to Fever's? It's nearly non-existent when compared to its predecessor and Pokepark Wii's. And frankly, I think Nintendo of America should have spent some of RH's advertising budget for higher quality localization.
"And for your last part. Why do they have to create new IP's with every new great gameplay idea that comes to mind, if an existing universe works just fine with what they'd like to portray. And the games are usually built around these universe's, that's how the games end up working so well within them! And to accuse the Mario universe of having a bland personality just reeks of ignorance. Have you ever played Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour? Super Mario Land 2: Six Golden Coins? How about Super Paper Mario, a more recent title? Or Super Mario 3D Land even, one of the most recent ones? If you played these and can sit there and say that the Mario universe is bland then I have a nasty surprise for you bro, most people don't think that way. If they did, they so called franchise fatigue you bang on about would have showed itself a long, long time ago and, protip: It' hasn't! Super Mario 3D Land is only on it's way to becoming the best selling 3D Mario game of all time. Hell it's already achieved that status in Japan!"
What exactly was so endearing about 3D Land? Artistically, it was a step-down from the Galaxy games' imagination and surrealism.
"And for your final comment to me personally. Calling me a selfish Nintendo dick-sucker. I think it's quite obvious to all that instead of reviewing the facts you are going to simply give me the old Nintendo fanboy stamp and dwell in your ignorance. Well you can take your comment and shove it. If anything, it is you and everyone else whining who are the selfish ones, because despite all the new IP's Nintendo has published this generation - more than anyone else, in fact - you have the gall to sit there and beg for more, claiming there are too few from this publisher."
Okay, I should have not called you a "dick-sucker", and apologize for that. While you may have strongly voiced your opinion(s), I regret the name-calling. How about we just disagree and go back to playing games?
"...disagree and go back to playing games?"
Best thing I've seen in this thread/article.
Schtick? Sorry to burst your bubble man, but the only fact is that your "facts" are an opinion. Nothing more. Period. I mean, saying "by putting out so much of the same brand in such a short amount of time they're lowering the overall effort and quality they've put into Mario games recently." is entirely subjective. What makes you the definitive word on that? I personally think that both Mario Galaxies and NSMB DS and Wii and 3D Land were great. See, opinions very. And saying that Nintendo isn't putting anything else out to buy is just ridiculous. Sorry. I mean, Kid Icarus just came out for crap sake. If that doesn't appeal to you either, again, that's not Nintendo's fault.
In regards to NSMB 2, I gave you an example of what the facts seem to be based on the reactions and ratings of the articles announcing the game and that is anything but opinion. Most people are happy about it, a few vocally loud people aren't. That's it. Deal with it. I'm not saying i'm right and your wrong. I'm saying this is what the big picture is saying, and I am with the majority who are happy to embrace more Mario as long as it is solid platforming action at it's best, which it has been in my opinion. I could care less if the NSMB style has become visually tired or not. It's the gameplay that I come back for and Mario's gameplay has always been and always will be the star attraction.
So I say, yet again, if you think that there is too much Mario today, then don't buy it. The rest of us will still enjoy the games.
All I have to say is I wouldn't mind all the Mario milking if current iterations matched past iterations in terms of quality and creativity. Otherwise I get bored of the series and begin to stop caring altogether.
Super Mario Bros., Super Mario Bros. 2 (although released as Doki Doki Panic, the game started off development as Super Mario Bros. 2 by Kensuke Tanabe and received more input from Miyamoto than The Lost Levels did), Super Mario Bros. 3, Super Mario World, Super Mario Land, and Super Mario Land 2 all have unique art styles and characters within the games. Mario switched from The Mushroom Kingdom, to Subcon, back to a hugely expanded Mushroom Kingdom (with a different art style), to dinosaur land, to Sarasaland, to Mario Land. Then you get Super Mario World 2, which is COMPLETELY different from its predecessor.
With the exception of Super Mario Bros. 3 (which basically redesigned the mushroom kingdom altogether), each of these games feature new locales with different art styles. They all feature different music, different powerups, Super Mario Bros. 2 featured different gameplay, different bosses.
Compare this to NSMB and Super Mario 3D Land, which are essentially the same thing over and over again, maybe with an extra powerup or so.
The Legend of Zelda and Zelda II were dramatically different, and even though A Link to the Past returned to the original's form of gameplay, several new elements, characters, and locales were created. Link's Awakening took place on a brand new island, featured more natural characters, and was an oddball.
Metroid also changed from the genre defining adventure game to a game where you have to eradicate an entire species, and back to form in a dramatically improved Super Metroid.
So no, the 80's and 90's weren't full of games that were "slightly better and more polished versions of their predecessors." At least, not for Nintendo.
And also, using DKC as an example isn't very valid. They were made mainly by Rare, not Nintendo.
@Star Luigi
Star Luigi. This quote here is obviously the root of your line of thinking. Thinking like this, it makes sense that you continue to dismiss the games listed, even though many of them in fact did get direct sequels.
Well, I'm happy to tell you, then, that everything I quoted there is incorrect. You have been arguing with lies and a lack of understanding what an IP actually is. Whether you realized that or not.
An Intellectual property (IP) refers to creations of the mind: inventions, literary and artistic works, and symbols, names, images, and designs used in commerce. http://www.wipo.int/about-ip/en/
Nothing in this link, or any other piece describing an intellectual property will tell you that an IP requires multiple variants of itself, or be marketed in some notable way. That would not make any sense.
All of the games listed by Laharl-KOTNW follow most of those rules, if not all of them. They are new IP's. Pushmo is just as much a new IP as Pikmin. You need to understand that an IP is not what you think it is. If you still cannot understand or accept this, then the discussion must end here, as there is no point in you replying to anyone, or anyone replying to you.
@MrGameBoy
Give me a moment and I'll read through your comment.
I was waiting for someone to point that out. A few times where I said 'IP' I had intended to say 'franchise' and by that mean not a singular game which isn't going to be getting a sequel, which I thought would have seemed a bit obvious given that I stated that repeatedly. Damn typo. x) I'm actually well aware of what an IP is thank you. This all boils down to this: What is Nintendo making so that it doesn't have to constantly rely on the exact same games and concepts repeatedly and are they actually trying to get word of potential hits out to a significant amount of people? THAT'S why I dismissed most of those listed games, for more or less all of them were never put in a position to suucceed nor made to be games that could continue on past an initial installement and THAT is the root line of my thinking. And I have a feeling I'm still going to somehow be misinterpreted despite my caps. T~T
@FrenchFryGuy
Subjective? The fact that in 3D Land, as another user pointed out earlier, the same assets and bosses are repeated through 16 worlds? That is way too repetitive and shows a clear lack of effort or a lack of care. Basically, the game was rushed. The same thing for NSMBWii, but to a lesser extent in the area of repetitive-ness. And I didn't say KI:U didn't appeal to me, found it quote fun. But I don't really consider a reboot to be making a new franchise and it's quite possible the series could end up being iced once again. =P
@Star Luigi I though 3d land was great. No Mario galaxy, but still a ton of fun. As for kid icarus. WHY WOULDN'T IT COUNT? It was the re birth of a dead franchise that looked and played nothing like it's predecessor. Also, I don't see what you are complaining about. You want new experiences yet you don't think they count. You want games with multiple instalments, yet you are tired of seeing Mario although his games are fairly different.
I didn't say 3D Land wasn't fun for me, because it was. Does that take away its several fault? No.
Perhaps KI:U counts, I was a little too quick to dismiss it. However, I'm asking for an actual new franchise(es) that will take away Nintendo's need to repeatedly use him when they find themselves with a market gap that they need to fill. It's not like they're unable, but ut seems like they're unwilling to do so and do it well, which is my "complaint". "Mario" is being used a tad too much basically.None of this would even be a problem or necessary if Nintendo would make use of their other series, but alas...
@Honoguma
I was talking about video games as a whole in the 80's and 90's not just Nintendo made games. Show me where I specifically stated Nintendo made games only. That's why I referred to Donkey Kong Country 2 and 3 as examples and they're perfectly valid examples thank you very much. You want another one? Megaman 2,3,4,5, and 6. Another? Contra 2 and 3.
And for the record. Super Mario Bros. 2 was intended to be exactly a slightly polished and improved sequel to it's predecessor and was in Japan. The only reason Super Mario Bros. 2 wasn't released here at the time was because it was deemed too hard. The only reason SMB 2 was different here in the States was circumstantial. So there's a Nintendo made game reference point for you about more polished sequels of a predecessor. I'll give you yet another Nintendo made game. Super Punch-Out. More of the same with better graphics.
And as far as Zelda 2 is concerned. Nintendo tried something new and it backfired on them because Zelda 2 is widely regarded by most as the red headed stepchild of the series. So what did Nintendo do. They made a direct sequel to the original in the form of A Link to the Past. A more polished and improved version of the original. There's another example for you. Character development. Different locals. All that stuff is splitting hairs and doesn't change the fact that the core gameplay is the same.
The point i'm making, and this applies to you to @Star Luigi, is it's just today's hypercritical spoiled gamer mentality that i'm pointing out. So ready to throw around buzz words like "originality" and "innovation" all while forgetting the way gaming's been all along. Ready to dismiss anything that is deemed too similar to it's predecessor or call it lazy. Well I haven't lost site of that fact and still have a little thing called perspective. With age comes wisdom I guess.
@Star Luigi
In regards to 3D Land. Now we're all splitting hairs over stuff that is entirely subjective. I'm sorry but it just is. What's old is new, what's fresh to some is stale to others blah blah blah. What's lazy to you is fun to others. Nintendo is making these games for a reason. Mario is popular and he sells. It is a business of making money after all. You seem to think that anytime Nintendo announces a new Mario game that it's somehow to fill a void or to use him as a crutch rather than the possibility of the fact that, oh I don't know, it's Mario and he's popular and people love his games and want more. Go figure.
When people have decided that they've had enough Mario, they will let Nintendo know with their wallets and Nintendo will respond accordingly. It's been a year shy of 3 decades of Mario now and most people still can't get enough so i'm not sure that it will ever happen. Until then, it's pointless to bicker endlessly about subjectivity.
It hs nothing to do with my bias. They reused the EXACT SAME levels and power-ups (the Tanuki Suit, really) throughout the entire game. That isn't my opinion, that's what they actually did. This has nothing to do with me thinking the need to 'innovate'. You perhaps got that because I said they're being repetitive with concepts and such in the games. Like I said earlier, they don't need to 'reinvent the wheel', they can't just continue to send out a stream of Mario games without it becoming a bit stale, hence why I say something new or dead needs to be brought to the table, with KI: Uprising being an example of them doing so, but then comes other games showing the reverse of that.
@Star Luigi
But they did reinvent the wheel with Mario. It was called Super Mario Galaxy. And i'm sure they will do it again with Wii U when Mario gets his next proper 3D platformer. What's wrong with a little good 'ol 2D side-scrolling Mario sprinkled in in between. And for the record people were clamoring for the return of the Tanooki suit. People geeked out big time when the tail logo was revealed.
As far as new games and franchises go. Don't you think that all of that stuff is in the works for E3. I mean come on, we already know about Luigi's Mansion 2. A very welcome sequel as far as i'm concerned. Pikmin 3 and there was a GoNintendo article here a while back stating that Nintendo was busy working on new franchises for Wii U. It takes time.
I think you just need to wait and see. Nintendo Direct was not meant to be Nintendo putting all of their cards on the table.
I know ND wasn't the whole shebang. I do hope that come E3 Nintendo has stellar news, but I've learned not to get my hopes too high with Nintendo and E3. =/ That way with either outcome I'll be fine.
@Star Luigi
I don't know. I think if you let yourself become too jaded and unwilling to get your hopes up for fear of being disappointed, then E3 loses some of it's charm. I pretty much regress back to the state of a 14 year old when E3 time comes rolling around. I love it and i'm not afraid of a little disappointment.
Sure it's disappointing if the game you had your heart set on doesn't materialize, but it's not the end of the world and there's usually still at least one positive thing that comes out of the event.
@Star Luigi
Ok, so you wan't more new IP's to be given the opportunity to obtain worldwide success and be looked upon a healthy, profitable franchise in the vein of Mario or Zelda, though perhaps not necessarily as big. Am I understanding this right? I hope so. Anyway, that's fair enough, I'd also like more of Nintendo's new IP's to become hits, and be advertised and promoted more than some do. I have my doubts as to whether you truly understand how difficult it is for certain kinds of games to become commercial hits, regardless of promotion, but that's not what I'd like to focus on. Your original reply to Laharl-KOTNW was this:
You originally claimed that there were no new IP's coming from Nintendo. That is false, and that is what people argued with you against. Your argument then seemingly changed to no successful new franchises. This is also false to a degree, but it's difficult to argue on because I don't believe you stated before what you personally consider a success. If you want Mario levels of success, well then, yes, you're right about there being practically nothing new which achieved that kind of success. The only franchises that have approached, matched or succeeded Mario this generation are Call of Duty, Halo, Wii Fit, Wii Sports, Assassins Creed and Just Dance. Two of those are from Nintendo themselves, so there you go. However, I don't think you're expecting Mario levels of success, as this quote suggests otherwise:
Yes, this same quote again. Take a look at the last line of it. You flat-out claim Nintendo have not attempted to create and try to establish a single franchise since Pikmin on the GameCube. That is false.
Using Pikmin as the last example, you must consider the original Pikmin titles a success. Since then, there have been a number of new franchises published by Nintendo that have become successes in a similar vein to Pikmin. Brain Age, Wii Sports, Professor Layton, Band brothers, and to a somewhat lesser extent Hotel Dusk and even Fossil Fighters to name a few. All of those examples have multiple titles, fitting in to your definition of franchise and all of them achieved a similar modicum of success to Pikmin. Now, whether you like these titles or not is beside the point, so please don't try and say anything like oh well most of those are casual or not what I wanted so it doesn't count. You argued successful new franchises had not materialized since the original Pikmin games. That is wrong, the successful new franchises are there.
Now perhaps you did mean to say franchises in the very beginning. It's entirely possible that you just made minor errors earlier on instead of purposely shifting goalposts. I'll take your word for it and assume you did, since you did acknowledge that you meant to state franchises rather than IP's in some areas, and far be it of me to call you a liar.
@MrGameBoy
Well now it looks like your argument has shifted. First, you claimed thatnew IP's don't exist. This was proven wrong. Whether or not you liked the new IP's, whether they are of high quality or not, whether they got a ton of promotion and were successful or not, whether they're more geared for casual players or not is all beside the point. You and many others made claims that these new IP's simply do not exist outright, and that is false.
Now, you've made it clear that you are looking for certain kinds of games and if these games are too few and far between, then I don't know what to tell you. Yes, that sucks, that sucks hard, but that's no reason to have a closed mind about other titles. I can't force you to enjoy other games that you may not be interested in, but I can at least urge you to give them a chance instead of dismissing them entirely. I never used to play any driving simulators but A couple of years ago I took a chance and bought Forza Motorsport 3, despite knowing nothing about cars and not knowing how to drive myself. But fuck me if that isn't the most polished game I've played this entire console generation. Now I'm not saying you'll suddenly like every single game you try, I don't, but they could at least be given a chance. Better to play something than nothing, right?
You bring up the more recently forgotten franchises like F-Zero and Star Fox. Why? I mean, yes, it sucks that they haven't really gotten any attention this generation, but was your argument not on the lack of new IP's? But hey, I got to play a lot of new games from Nintendo this generation, and I got sequels to lost franchises like Kid Icarus and X, so I think I'll cut them a bit of slack there. I wan't a new F-Zero and Star Fox as much as the next guys, but I also wanted new IP's and sequels to other old games. I didn't get all of thank but I'm thankful that I got some, and perhaps as Nintendo continues to expand it's business and open new studios they'll be able to provide us with all of those at once.
On the claim of too many Mario platformers: You don't seem to recognize that they're across multiple systems, on top of being different from one another. They haven't been yearly, close to it, but not quite. Fair enough you feel they're bland, I disagree, I find them each to be strong in their own ways and certainly not devoid of personality. If you own all the systems and are burned out on Mario platformers, just don't buy them. Not every person owns every Nintendo system. The Wii has two 3D Mario titles and one 2D title. The DS has one 3D Mario title and one 2D title. Now, the 3DS has one 3D Mario title and a 2D title on the way. Seems perfectly fair to me. Anyone who has at least one of these consoles can experience at least one 2D or 3D Mario title.
Longer development time does theoretically lead to better, more polished games, but that isn't always the case. Super Mario Galaxy 2 and Zelda: Majora's Mask each had around a year of development time iirc. Both games are outstanding. How many people do you see calling Majora's Mask the best Zelda of all time?
Sales don't dictate quality, yes, but there is a clear relationship between the two. If these New Super Mario Games are selling upwards of 20 million units worldwide each, then the games themselves are doing more right than wrong.
Both Hotel Dusk and Last Window had TV advertisements here in Europe at least, and I'm sure Japan had them to. Perhaps NoA dropped the ball on that one, it wouldn't be the first time. Rhythm Heaven Fever I can't speak of, if that's not getting promotions than I don't know why, and I'm honestly very surprised. If you have a problem with RHF's localization that's fair enough, I have yet to play that game so I can't speak of it's localization job.
I agree that 3D Land's design was not as - forgive the pun - out there as the Galaxy games, but I don't believe 3D Land was artistically weaker than the Galaxy games or other Mario platformers, just more noticeably closer to home. On top of that, it played bloody well. The levels are well designed and the platforming is as solid as ever. I can't complain with that.
I accept your apology. No hard feelings.
Super Mario 3D Land is reduction than a year old, and Nintendo has already announced another Mario pretension for 3DS, New Super Mario Bros. 2, set to launch in North America this August. Keep in mind this is in further to Paper Mario 3DS, that might arrive someday late 2012, early 2013. Of course, there’s also Mario Tennis Open, due out finish of May. Hell, Mario Kart 7 was final December.
9f586 3 Super Mario Overkill: Is There Such A Thing As Too Much Mario?
Don’t get me wrong. we adore Mario games only as most as a subsequent Nintendo fan. They’ve always been a treat, a form of practice we happily get mislaid within for several hours. At a same time, prior games were delicately spaced detached to beget hype and demoniac anticipation. That said, is there such a thing as too most Mario?
Look during Call of Duty. Over a past few years, Activision’s first-person sharpened array has dominated a industry, nonetheless this week, we schooled that sales of Modern Warfare 3 are behind a predecessor, Black Ops. Thing is, this is an IP that sees one recover any year, along with DLC. Now here comes Nintendo with maybe 3 Mario titles for 2012 and final holiday’s games still uninformed on a minds.
Of course, a large N has copiousness of story to indicate to, with several Mario titles offered upwards of 10 million copies. The strange New Super Mario Bros. for DS sole over 26 million. These days, publishers are propitious if their games sell a million.
While on a theme of DS, how does Pokemon Black White 2 get announced for DS, though New Super Mario Bros. 2 is on 3DS? Explain how that creates sense.
Bottom line, Mario adventures have always been value a wait, and we fear Nintendo might overexpose a esteem plumber, where instead of offered 10-plus million copies each, a series dips to nine, afterwards eight, afterwards five.
Or maybe they continue to sell during a shave of 20 million. Perhaps, some-more than any IP, Mario retains his charm, that has helped make a small man a tellurian materialisation for some-more than 25 years.
Either way, it’s extravagantly transparent that Nintendo aims to destroy PlayStation Vita, and a lineup of Mario games alone has to make Sony nervous. we know Vita is still comparatively young, though if Sony doesn’t have a knockout E3 in June, we don’t see a handheld competing with 3DS longterm.
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