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Xeodrifter diary #11

GN Podcast #478
 

5th Cell - No system-wide accomplishments system on Wii U

This comes straight from Jackson over at 5th Cell...

There are no Wii U accomplishments that are system wide. They are up to the developers to include or not include. Scribblenauts Unlimited loosely has them in the form of "Global Starite Shards" which is like a giant checklist of global things to spawn and do in the game that aren't area specific.

There you go, now we know with 100% accuracy. No system-wide accomplishments on the system. Is that a deal breaker for you? Thanks to Dim for the heads up.

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51 total comments (View all)
User avatar
11 Nov 2012 20:42

One cannot expect Nintendo to catch up to 6 year old consoles in one swoop.
User avatar
11 Nov 2012 22:16

Oh no! We won't be able to see that notification pop up that lets us know,

"You've done Mario's double jump 576 times! Silver Nintendo Star for you!"

Oh how will I survive...
No Avatar
11 Nov 2012 22:16

I knew this months ago when Nintendo said it.....>_>
User avatar
11 Nov 2012 22:43

I'll still be getting a Wii U for exclusives but I won't be playing a single multiplatform game on it. Nintendo really let me down on this one.
User avatar
11 Nov 2012 22:47

Well personally I don't care, plus Nintendo has spoken out on their opinion of achievements so I am not surprised. Even though I could care less, there are people who would so Nintendo really should have included it. Oh well I'm sure they can add it in a later update if they deem it necessary like sony.
User avatar
11 Nov 2012 23:00

@ridleysaria

This is pretty much exactly why Nintendo should have system-wide accomplishments. The mere fact that even one person says this (well, and I wrote something similar above as well) is enough of an indication that not having them is a mistake.

@tellis429
Personal opinions of a few higher ups really shouldn't dictate business decisions. If the next president of Nintendo hated Mario for some reason, would the smart decision be to stop making Mario games or keep them coming? Not including Accomplishments obviously isn't as dumb as that, but it will definitely hurt business, especially where multiplatform games are concerned (and then we're going to get the whole 3rd party games don't sell on Nintendo consoles AGAIN). They would be dumb not to include them in an upcoming update. It's just too bad that the first wave of games won't have them (unless they're added on later, which is possible). ZombiU would be great with them, and a big challenge could be to beat the game as the first survivor/character. And then I'm sure there are lots of people who are sick of NSMB who would still get the new one just to get all the accomplishments (which a game like NSMB is perfect for, like that one pseudo-accomplishment they showed, I think it was finish a level in under a minute) as to some it might make the game feel fresh again, just like with the first SMB where people would do things like speed runs for the fun of it, only now they'd also happen to get a little notification that they did it. Nintendo has always made fun in-game accomplishments, like in Star Fox 64. I remember playing and watching the game with my brother, and then finally when we got all the medals it was a huge accomplishment for us. Today, it would be like that with the only difference being that that accomplishment happens to be saved onto our account.

And on a related note, who doesn't like when you get a surprise accomplishment in Mii Plaza or Find Mii? Getting the accomplishments like streetpass 5 male Miis in a row was a surprise (I assume there's a female one too, but I don't think that one is likely to happen any time soon... or ever...), miss 3 attacks in a row in Find Mii was fun one (that turned something dumb into something fun), and there are lots others that were just a nice surprise to encounter.
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11 Nov 2012 23:14

Nez wrote:@ridleysaria

This is pretty much exactly why Nintendo should have system-wide accomplishments. The mere fact that even one person says this (well, and I wrote something similar above as well) is enough of an indication that not having them is a mistake.

@tellis429
Personal opinions of a few higher ups really shouldn't dictate business decisions. If the next president of Nintendo hated Mario for some reason, would the smart decision be to stop making Mario games or keep them coming? They would be dumb not to include it in an upcoming update. It's just too bad that the first wave of games won't have them (unless they're added on later). I'm sure there are lots of people who are sick of NSMB who would still get the new one just to get all the accomplishments (which a game like NSMB is perfect for, like that one pseudo-accomplishment they showed, I think it was finish a level in under a minute). Nintendo has always made fun in-game accomplishments, like in Star Fox 64. I remember playing and watching the game with my brother, and finally getting all the medals was a huge accomplishment for us. It would be like that only that accomplishment gets saved.

And on a related note, who doesn't like when you get a surprise accomplishment in Mii Plaza or Find Mii? Getting the accomplishments like streetpass 5 male Miis in a row was a surprise (I assume there's a female one too, but I don't think that one is likely to happen any time soon... or ever...), miss 3 attacks in a row in Find Mii was fun one (that turned something dumb into something fun), and there are lots others that were just a nice surprise to encounter.


I think it's pretty clear that Capcom seems to be doing just that with Mega Man. XD The higher ups are butt-hurt that Inafune left, so they cancelled all the Mega Man games currently in development and are now just out to drag his name through the mud.
User avatar
11 Nov 2012 23:22

Yup, and that's just sad. Mega Man is, or rather was synonymous with Capcom, always being one of their top franchises and practically the mascot of the company, and the mere fact that they're doing this to him is just a dumb business move. They also made "box art Mega Man" playable in SF X Tekken, probably as another insult to the character. And then he wasn't in any Capcom VS games recently, being replaced with Zero and even Tron Bonne as representation of the Mega Man games.

Didn't they recently say they had some more Mega Man coming though? It would be dumb to keep him in the dark forever, so maybe they just canned whatever Inafune was working and just started their own MM games out of spite. Like I said though, stupid either way. Running a business is about making smart decisions and not letting emotions or personal feelings get in the way of making them, which seems like something both Capcom and Nintendo are guilty of doing.
User avatar
11 Nov 2012 23:25

Nez wrote:@ridleysaria

This is pretty much exactly why Nintendo should have system-wide accomplishments. The mere fact that even one person says this (well, and I wrote something similar above as well) is enough of an indication that not having them is a mistake.


Well they should be used to selling less games by now.
User avatar
11 Nov 2012 23:41

ridleysaria wrote:
Nez wrote:@ridleysaria

This is pretty much exactly why Nintendo should have system-wide accomplishments. The mere fact that even one person says this (well, and I wrote something similar above as well) is enough of an indication that not having them is a mistake.


Well they should be used to selling less games by now.


Yup, and yet here they are, (perhaps purposefully) in the same boat as they were in with the Wii, except the difference now being that the multiplatform games are roughly all on par graphically, and that the Wii U version could in fact be superior (or inferior, if the controller is used stupidly or something... not that the Wii versions couldn't be better, it was just rare) to their PS3/360 counterparts, and yet something so small (or useless as some might choose to believe) like no system-wide accomplishments could still make people choose to buy the competition's version of the game over their's. It's sad, really, that having system-wide accomplishments was even a question in the first place, and that they actually decided against it.
User avatar
11 Nov 2012 23:50

Nez wrote:

@nGen
Does Sony pay Microsoft for having Trophies?


From Gamespot:

What it means: Filed nearly a year before the Xbox 360's November 2005 launch, this one is actually pretty straightforward with its description. What's less straightforward is how Sony is using its very similar Trophy system for the PlayStation 3 and PlayStation Vita. Unfortunately, companies are under no obligation to disclose who they've licensed their patents to, or which products are covered by which patents. As a result, it's not clear if Sony licensed the rights to use Microsoft's system for its own product, if the two companies came to some other agreement for Sony to use it, or if Microsoft has just decided not to pursue a patent violation suit for whatever reason.

Don't expect either company to volunteer that information, either. A Microsoft representative told GameSpot, "While we don't comment on specific patents, it's important to note that Microsoft has hundreds of pending and issued game-related patents." A Sony representative did not return GameSpot's request for comment.


http://www.gamespot.com/features/patented-game-mechanics-that-might-surprise-you-6369027/?page=7

We may never know if Sony pays Microsoft for use of the patent. Given how highly profitable the Patent Wars have been, I doubt Microsoft would choose not to pursue a blatant patent infringement. My guess is either they made a deal or Sony pays them.
User avatar
12 Nov 2012 00:09

@nGen

Interesting, thanks for finding that.
Assuming Sony does have to pay, I wonder how different the Accomplishment system would have to be for Nintendo to avoid paying Microsoft if they choose to try to avoid the fees but still have a similar system.
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12 Nov 2012 02:12

Nez wrote:@metalpants

That's all fine and good, and I agree that if bragging is all you want to do then Miiverse is great for that, but most (as far as I know) don't care about the bragging aspect. The thing they want is just a constant record of the things they have done in a game and, in the case that they platinum'd it, know that they've accomplished all that there is to do in it. In my opinion and in my case, Trophies are just list of things I've done in the games I own, not something I should brag about. To compare it to a Nintendo thing, look at your Daily Logs on the 3DS. You occasionally look at it for fun, and you like that this stuff is there (or you may not like and not even bother to look at it), but it's not like you're doing it for the sole reason of saying stuff to a friend like "look, I played for 13 hours today!" It's just something that happens and you can enjoy when you want to (or like I said, ignore and not bother with it). And let's say you decide one day, I want to run 100000 steps. You go out and do that, look at your log and are happy you did it. That's just like trying to get a certain trophy. So, like the Daily Logs, you can look at them, accomplish goals in them, etc and enjoy them, or you could just ignore them since they don't mean anything to you. I'm sure there are people in both sides, but the people who don't care can't possibly say that they want the Daily Logs removed just because they don't like them. I think you can see what I mean now.

And yes, I always thought that if Nintendo were to make an accomplishment system they would give some sort of rewards, like a new accessory for your Mii for each platinum you get, or something like that. And that would just be a fun bonus that would make their version of trophies/achievements better than those of the competition (sure you could say that some people would just buy every game, even terrible ones, and platinum them for the purpose of accessories, but so what? let them do that, it really shouldn't bug anyone if there are people who want to do stuff like that).


I see what you mean.

And yeah, I agree. There are definitely games that I like to 100%. But like I said, it's such an open-ended system that I think it actually allows for MORE than just a set amount of achievements. Of course, as Nintendo has stated in the past, it comes down to the developer. When I was playing Batman Arkham City on my laptop, I decided to get every single Riddler trophy and did. It felt so good once I got them all (even though I didn't really get any worthwhile reward, but it was a great feeling nonetheless). That said, those trophies were part of the game itself, and not part of the achievement system itself.

But anyway, I think the potential is so much greater than the other systems. So much more can be integrated than just the list of goals or things to do. And I think that, like with PS3, Nintendo can implement it as part of the OS (or not. It's Nintendo, lol. But hey, they got rid of friend codes so... there might still be hope) if demand is significant, so I'm not really too concerned that the achievement thing is not part of the OS from day one.

I still stand by the fact that Miiverse just allows for so much more........ dare I even say that developers can post ADDITIONAL accomplishments if they wish so and reward the players that beat them according to what they see on Miiverse posts. I just really like the fact that we can have the typical "list", plus you can make your own by posting your achievements, PLUS the developers can add more if they want either through Miiverse or DLC. The freedom it provides is like a fresh splash of water in the face on a hot day. I wish I was a developer to take advantage of these opportunities Nintendo is bringing to the table with Wii U right about now... seems like a fun time to start.

Edit: Also, this makes it so that Nintendo can still make some sort of achievement system without the possibility of having to pay MS somehow. I think it kills like ten birds with one stone this whole Miiverse thing.
User avatar
12 Nov 2012 02:25

While I'm sure that for some people will be frustrated by this since this is suppose to be something to actually compete for core gamers and core gamers think that System-Wide achievement system goes to show how core it is, I feel like, with enough yelling, it can be a simple update to the system to take all the individual game achievements and put it all together later down the line.

And maybe, it can be changed in the settings to system-wide or not; that way, casual audience would not care and the core audience would appreciate it
User avatar
12 Nov 2012 04:39

I don't personally care much for achievements - lots of games have their own achievement/trophy system anyway, and if the developer wants it they probably will include something like that in the game... though I guess I can understand why people like it - collectibles about showing what you can do are fun! Though, I guess this can be a deal-breaker for some "hardcore" gamers... while I don't care, it would be fun to have achievements!

(Though if Microsoft does have a patent for it, I guess that could be a problem too...)
User avatar
12 Nov 2012 05:55

Steam has achievements too. If Nintendo wanted, they could have them.
User avatar
12 Nov 2012 06:21

ridleysaria wrote:I'll still be getting a Wii U for exclusives but I won't be playing a single multiplatform game on it. Nintendo really let me down on this one.



Aham.. So the games on WiiU with better graphics, higher res and the use of the Wii U gamepad is stupid compared to achievments... What the phuq is wong with modern gamers, like you?

People acy like spoiled brats and nitpick so they can find something to whine about just to have something to whine about.

I miss the days when gaming was about GAMING and not braging or whining on the net...

Oh well... To each his/her own I guess.
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Anonymous
12 Nov 2012 08:32

My problem with the "omg you can take photos and doodle on them" argument is that it takes a bit more work. Enough work that most people won't do it and most games don't have score counts so what exactly are you taking a photo of.

It also takes away some of the charm. For instance say, Portal. I remember there was an achievement for falling for a ton of feet, like the only way to unlock this was to make a portal above and below and fall for about 10 minutes. How do you capture that in a photo? What's the point of having your game running for 10 minutes with inaction if there is no reward? Yeah it might be a waste of time but you get that little badge that automatically gets uploaded to your profile and people can see, "wow that guy is dedicated!" or " wow, get a life." My point being I'm not going to take a photo of my character looking down through a bunch of portals and write, "HEY GUYS I JUST LEFT MY GAME IDLE FOR 10 MINUTES WHILE I WAS FALLING THROUGH PORTALS AND NOW BEAT THAT!"
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12 Nov 2012 08:45

Its the best thing that could of happened. Devs hate having to do it manditory.

Better to make it an option
User avatar
12 Nov 2012 09:01

idkmybffjams wrote:My problem with the "omg you can take photos and doodle on them" argument is that it takes a bit more work. Enough work that most people won't do it and most games don't have score counts so what exactly are you taking a photo of.

It also takes away some of the charm. For instance say, Portal. I remember there was an achievement for falling for a ton of feet, like the only way to unlock this was to make a portal above and below and fall for about 10 minutes. How do you capture that in a photo? What's the point of having your game running for 10 minutes with inaction if there is no reward? Yeah it might be a waste of time but you get that little badge that automatically gets uploaded to your profile and people can see, "wow that guy is dedicated!" or " wow, get a life." My point being I'm not going to take a photo of my character looking down through a bunch of portals and write, "HEY GUYS I JUST LEFT MY GAME IDLE FOR 10 MINUTES WHILE I WAS FALLING THROUGH PORTALS AND NOW BEAT THAT!"



Nobody said that there wont be an achievment system. Developers can make them. But it's just not system wide.
User avatar
12 Nov 2012 10:33

@Entity

I'm pretty sure that's his point. In his example, he would have done the falling for 10 minutes thing, and then gotten the accomplishment in game. But that will only be in game. He wants it on his account as well, which makes sense. "Yay, I did this otherwise pointless thing for fun!" Pull out the disc from the system (or if it's digital, stop playing it for a while?) and maybe even trade it in for something else, now all of a sudden, you knew you did the achievement, but no one else does (if that's what you care about), and if you traded in, well that's gone, I can't imagine Miiverse messages staying around forever in some big archive. It's the recording aspect that people like, I think. Where whenever you feel like it you can just go take a look at all the stuff you've done, or even just know that it's there when you do want to check. Not have to go find that old disc and pop it back in the system just to check it.

And really, how many of us here like 100%ing games? I do, and I'm pretty sure a lot of you guys do too (beating all the extra levels in Galaxy or 3D Land, collecting all the masks in Majora's Mask, getting all the medals in SF64, unlocking all the AX racers in GX, etc...) and this little bunch of pixels is just a little recording that I did that (not to mention it's a bit of extra motivation to do it for really challenging games that you would otherwise give up on). Wouldn't it be cool in another 10 years when the Wii UUU comes out that you could look back on the still in use Nintendo Network and take a look at all the accomplishments you've gotten (stuff you've done) on the Wii U and Wii UU (ignore the uncreative names)? I think that'd be cool. I know I can't remember all the things I did on the N64 and Gamecube, and being able to see that would definitely be fun nostalgia kick to the face.
User avatar
12 Nov 2012 10:59

Entity wrote:Nobody said that there wont be an achievment system. Developers can make them. But it's just not system wide.

That is the problem. Miiverse is a message board, accomplishments have no value there, they are just posts, no points or system unlocks or anything, and they are indistinguishable from any other of your posts (and we dont even know if your older posts get deleted eventually).
As a record of your gaming progress, miiverse doesn't look like its quite there yet.
User avatar
12 Nov 2012 12:20

Entity wrote:
ridleysaria wrote:I'll still be getting a Wii U for exclusives but I won't be playing a single multiplatform game on it. Nintendo really let me down on this one.



Aham.. So the games on WiiU with better graphics, higher res and the use of the Wii U gamepad is stupid compared to achievments... What the phuq is wong with modern gamers, like you?

People acy like spoiled brats and nitpick so they can find something to whine about just to have something to whine about.

I miss the days when gaming was about GAMING and not braging or whining on the net...

Oh well... To each his/her own I guess.


Let's be honest, so far Wii U games aren't looking any better than their 360 and PS3 counterparts. But you know, Nintendo fans should know that graphics aren't everything. Sorry to break it to you, but not everybody finds the Wii U gamepad to be all that compelling. So I already have the good graphics on my PS3 and the controller functionality doesn't do anything for me, so why should I bother with multiplatform titles on Wii U when they don't do achievements correctly?

Oh right, it's easier to resort to insults, calling me a selfish brat and pigeon hole me into a supposedly awful group of modern gamers despite the fact that I've been playing games since the Atari days. Should I go sit in the back of the bus with the rest of the achievement lovers?
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13 Nov 2012 13:43

ridleysaria wrote:
Entity wrote:

Aham.. So the games on WiiU with better graphics, higher res and the use of the Wii U gamepad is stupid compared to achievments... What the phuq is wong with modern gamers, like you?

People acy like spoiled brats and nitpick so they can find something to whine about just to have something to whine about.

I miss the days when gaming was about GAMING and not braging or whining on the net...

Oh well... To each his/her own I guess.


Let's be honest, so far Wii U games aren't looking any better than their 360 and PS3 counterparts. But you know, Nintendo fans should know that graphics aren't everything. Sorry to break it to you, but not everybody finds the Wii U gamepad to be all that compelling. So I already have the good graphics on my PS3 and the controller functionality doesn't do anything for me, so why should I bother with multiplatform titles on Wii U when they don't do achievements correctly?

Oh right, it's easier to resort to insults, calling me a selfish brat and pigeon hole me into a supposedly awful group of modern gamers despite the fact that I've been playing games since the Atari days. Should I go sit in the back of the bus with the rest of the achievement lovers?


No reason to fret. Sony added that feature 2 years after launch. If Nintendo wanted to/felt it necessary, useful or in high enough demand/won't get sued by MS, they could add it as well. That said, I think Miiverse can provide something similar and the developers can get in on it too and reward the players that accomplish things accordingly. Miiverse provides a more open-ended environment for accomplishments so I think more can be done. But I understand what you mean in terms of the system wise accomplishment system. I wonder what's Nintendo's take on it...

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