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GN Podcast #472

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GN Podcast #471
 

Team Ninja sticks up for Wii U, explains how it's next-gen, comments on processor speed

"The Wii U is an infant that’s just been born. It’s a little unfair to compare it to mature platforms that people have been working on for over five years. I’m sure people will find ways to bring out even more power as the platform matures. To be completely blunt and honest, there’s no way that the Wii U processor is ‘horrible and slow’ compared to other platforms. I think that comment was just 4A trying to find a scapegoat for a simple business decision on their part.

If you’re basing this simply on processor speed, then it’s not next generation. If you’re basing this on Wii U being a new idea that challenges existing platforms, then it definitely is next generation. It is a console videogame platform that is now independent of the TV. Nobody has done that before.

It’s no mistake to say that we have entered a period where it’s difficult to provide an obvious difference to many players based on processor speed alone. Players want new innovation that includes the environment in which you play and services you use, rather than just raw processor spec. Nintendo is at the forefront of that innovation. I’m looking forward to seeing what the other platforms come up with in the future.” - Yosuke Hayashi, Team Ninja


Some very strong words in Nintendo's favor from Hayashi. Not just defending the Wii U, but Nintendo's philosophy in general. Really great to hear this kind of stuff.

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20 total comments (View all)
User avatar
07 Jan 2013 14:29

Based on the previous devs comments I'm pretty sure they got an early dev kit, looked at it for a moment and then never touched it. Although the CPU speed isn't that great, it was certainly improved since then
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Anonymous
07 Jan 2013 14:31

Yet no Yaiba: Ninja Gaiden Z or Dead or Alive 5.
So much for support from Team Ninja...
User avatar
07 Jan 2013 14:35

Which is better the Tegra 3 or the apple A5x chip? ... Tegra 3 quad core... A5x Dual core...


Tegra on paper is the better processor... but then Why does the A5x beat it out in every benchmark?...

A5x and ios is better engineered ... made for eachother...

When people start making games tailored to WiiU's hardware ... we will see some great looking stuff...

My point: Hardware specs rarely matter nowadays... it's what you do with them that counts. ... It's how things are coded. It's optimization of software... It's dividing your code up for the cores... It's custom programming for the GPU instead of dumping all your pre-made code on the CPU... It's about really spending time and effort making your code as clean as it can be for that system... Until devs start doing that we won't see much difference in visuals and performance.
User avatar
07 Jan 2013 14:40

"The Wii U is an infant that’s just been born. It’s a little unfair to compare it to mature platforms that people have been working on for over five years. I’m sure people will find ways to bring out even more power as the platform matures."

This is what people need to understand. Most of the current catologue are just ports of games on other consoles, so of course the Wii U will only match the other products. Ones we get proper software, designed for the Wii U by developers that KNOW the console well, we can see the true potential of the console, and will easily surpass current 360/PS3 consoles.

Pure logic!
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07 Jan 2013 16:13

"If you’re basing this simply on processor speed, then it’s not next generation."
User avatar
07 Jan 2013 16:40

@chris_the_wing

does that mean you're one of those that just looks at processing speed and decides if its next gen or not?
User avatar
07 Jan 2013 16:49

What about the RAM, GPU and the cache some developers were talking about? ;)

RETRO!!! CAPCOM!!!! NINTENDO!!! Show these people how to use the Wii U to do better graphics than the PS360 already. I know you guys can do it. And they might shut up for a short while.
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07 Jan 2013 16:58

LSF22 wrote:@chris_the_wing

does that mean you're one of those that just looks at processing speed and decides if its next gen or not?

No, I usually look at games. I'm just quoting the line everyone else is missing.
User avatar
07 Jan 2013 17:11

So is just like wii, its "next gen" just because of the new gimmick... Meh.
User avatar
07 Jan 2013 17:53

chris_the_wing wrote:
LSF22 wrote:@chris_the_wing

does that mean you're one of those that just looks at processing speed and decides if its next gen or not?

No, I usually look at games. I'm just quoting the line everyone else is missing.


Missing? Maybe just realizing that it's not really that important a factor.
User avatar
07 Jan 2013 19:55

My question for people that bash systems based on power is do you own a gaming PC? If so, then why do you care what the power of any console is like? If you don't own one, go build one because at this point you can definitely do it for less then five hundred ninety nine US dollars.

Seriously though, if you're stuck on the "graphics" thing still, the best horsepower is on devices that aren't dedicated to gaming. Everybody was flaunting Vita's power but the vastly superior Ipad 3 came out not even a month after Vita's launch and blows it out of the water power wise. As for the Vita games, they haven't proven themselves any better then the 3DS's despite the power power difference. Also lets be honest the power difference between Vita and 3DS is nowhere near the difference between DS and PSP. If you put RE Revelations and Uncharted Golden Abyss, it's hard to tell they're on different systems.

On the note of Wii U and whatever the next gen consoles will be, from what I seen of the engines behind the "next gen" software, I didn't see the type of gap that we did from PS2 to PS3. Furthermore, the LoZ tech demo at E3 2011 was right up there with what we were seeing from the Unreal Engine, Cry Engine, FF Agnus demo, and that Rainbow 6 demo. Even Quantic Dream's Kara tech demo was of really high quality and not far off from what the "new" engines have been showing AND it was done entirely on PS3. I'm just not feeling like we're really going to see the graphical jump people are thinking we will, especially considering PC, which is always the best looking, isn't that far off either.
User avatar
07 Jan 2013 20:22

@FrenchFryGuy

Lmao, you serious? Processing power is one of, if not THE most important thing. The better the processing power, the more the game can - wait for it! - process! Mind-blowing, isn't it?

Without superior powered consoles, we'd still be stuck playing Super Mario Bros. instead of NSMBWii or DKCR or Galaxy 2.
User avatar
08 Jan 2013 00:58

MegaShock100 wrote:@FrenchFryGuy

Lmao, you serious? Processing power is one of, if not THE most important thing. The better the processing power, the more the game can - wait for it! - process! Mind-blowing, isn't it?

Without superior powered consoles, we'd still be stuck playing Super Mario Bros. instead of NSMBWii or DKCR or Galaxy 2.



Ugh, you missed the point. If tech specs are all you're interested in, congratulations you're not a gamer, you're a graphics whore. The Wii U's processing power is fine is the point. So what if it won't be the most powerful of all three of the consoles when Sony and Microsoft reveal their new consoles, the level of graphical abilities and the overall look and performance of Wii U's games will be at a satisfactory level for most gamers today except for, you guessed it, graphics whores who think it's all about power.

Here's a question for you. How did all that power help Sony's Playstation 3? Answer, it nearly put their game division down for the count. It spent the majority of this cycle in the red and for what, 3rd place. Look at the PSP and now the Vita. More power isn't and never has been the answer jack. Games look good enough now. The leap from this generation to the next isn't going to be a very big one. Period.
User avatar
08 Jan 2013 01:19

MegaShock100 wrote:@FrenchFryGuy

Lmao, you serious? Processing power is one of, if not THE most important thing. The better the processing power, the more the game can - wait for it! - process! Mind-blowing, isn't it?

Without superior powered consoles, we'd still be stuck playing Super Mario Bros. instead of NSMBWii or DKCR or Galaxy 2.


No game this generation was held back by the processor, with a few minor exceptions that were still made able to run on the ps3 and 360 with some tweaks, crysis 3 will run on a core 2 duo which as of now is as old as the current console generation. What is holding back dev's in the current gen is gpu and ram which the wiiU has plenty of power to spare in those departments.
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08 Jan 2013 17:00

FrenchFryGuy wrote:
chris_the_wing wrote:
LSF22 wrote:@chris_the_wing

does that mean you're one of those that just looks at processing speed and decides if its next gen or not?

No, I usually look at games. I'm just quoting the line everyone else is missing.


Missing? Maybe just realizing that it's not really that important a factor.

FrenchFryGuy wrote:


Ugh, you missed the point. If tech specs are all you're interested in, congratulations you're not a gamer, you're a graphics whore. The Wii U's processing power is fine is the point. So what if it won't be the most powerful of all three of the consoles when Sony and Microsoft reveal their new consoles, the level of graphical abilities and the overall look and performance of Wii U's games will be at a satisfactory level for most gamers today except for, you guessed it, graphics whores who think it's all about power.
...Games look good enough now. The leap from this generation to the next isn't going to be a very big one. Period.



In a couple/three years when the PS4/720 start getting games as sophisticated as Planet Side 2 and the Wii U can't cut it we'll talk.
It's not about "graphics", it's about abilities. Lack of ability to run the same AAA multiplatform games without major sacrifices hurt the Wii & will impact the Wii U at some point. I couldn't care less about the "graphics" but when the visual fidelity, draw distance & refresh rate impact the gameplay I can protest from a gamers perspective.

Oh, & can we stop calling each other whores?
User avatar
08 Jan 2013 18:07

@chris_the_wing

By your logic then you better not buy any console, Wii U or PS4/720 because no system measures up to the latest PC graphics cards and processor speeds derp. And you wouldn't want to miss out on those experiences that would be hindered on the other systems. Or play a downgraded version of the same game on the PS4/720, that's right, it will apply to them just as it would the Wii U.

And i'll stop referring to you and people like you as graphics whores when you guys stop acting like one with your draw distances and visual fidelity garbage. Your like a Roger Ebert of videogames. Play games for fun and stop trivializes tech specs. I didn't give to sh!ts about that stuff back on the NES, SNES, etc. and I don't care about it now.
No Avatar
08 Jan 2013 19:26

FrenchFryGuy wrote:@chris_the_wing

By your logic then you better not buy any console, Wii U or PS4/720 because no system measures up to the latest PC graphics cards and processor speeds derp. And you wouldn't want to miss out on those experiences that would be hindered on the other systems. Or play a downgraded version of the same game on the PS4/720, that's right, it will apply to them just as it would the Wii U.

And i'll stop referring to you and people like you as graphics whores when you guys stop acting like one with your draw distances and visual fidelity garbage. Your like a Roger Ebert of videogames. Play games for fun and stop trivializes tech specs. I didn't give to sh!ts about that stuff back on the NES, SNES, etc. and I don't care about it now.

You're the one trivializing tech specs. The Wii U is going to be limited by the kinds of ported games it can handle. Not graphics, but the games themselves will be too complex for Wii U. One of the developers of Battlefield said the Wii U would need to cut down the number of players to run well, and that's for a game that's on the PS360.
The new standard for multiplatform games will be to run across PC, PS4 & 720. PC games will see their min requirements boosted significantly when they are running the next generation of games developed for PS4/720. The Wii U will be able to run smaller simpler games and exclusives, but the big budget AAA games need the maximum sales base, which will be on the other three platforms combined. Wii U will get some token support & the occasional bone so if you're happy with that then good for you.
User avatar
08 Jan 2013 23:38

That defense would mean something if it was coming from just about anyone else. Team Ninja has become so thoroughly incompetent at creating games that most sane companies would not give them the time of day, let alone several giant piles of publishing money and access to one of gaming's best IPs. :-/
User avatar
09 Jan 2013 01:43

chris_the_wing wrote:Wii U will get some token support & the occasional bone so if you're happy with that then good for you.


Well, seeing as how I buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games, I will be.

Furthermore, have a look at this Gonintendo piece and you'll see my point that the Wii U's abilities are just fine, if you want to actually apply what's there. http://gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=193960

The devs you mention don't really care about Nintendo or the demographic so it's easier for them to just poo poo it away and come up with whatever excuse they want to justify not supporting the system and guys like you lap it up as the gospel. Oh well. I always own more than one system regardless but I won't play the blame Nintendo game with you, certain devs, or anybody else for that matter. I'm just not interested in the same old shtick and haven't been for quite some time. Let the industry try their hardest to sh!t all over Nintendo. They'll still be here long after many of the devs saying their doomed are themselves gone or their tiny studios absorbed and their identities stripped. Hi THQ.
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09 Jan 2013 16:24

FrenchFryGuy wrote:
chris_the_wing wrote:Wii U will get some token support & the occasional bone so if you're happy with that then good for you.


Well, seeing as how I buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games, I will be.

Furthermore, have a look at this Gonintendo piece and you'll see my point that the Wii U's abilities are just fine, if you want to actually apply what's there. http://gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=193960 .

So you are excepting the situation that, as has been said before, Nintendo is in their own generation. They are now in the next of their own generations, but they aren't going to be in the next generation that their competition create.

Nano Assault Neo is a tiny game. The whole game could almost (if not actually) fit on the Ram of the 360. It's no shock they didn't run into issues with this game on the Wii U, especially seeing as they are talented developers who did great work in 40MBs on WiiWare. This is one of those small, simple & exclusive games I was talking about.

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